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Carving the Braces
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=20371		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Carving the Braces
I am currently carving the braces on my harp guitar top. I have nice chisels and two Ibex finger planes (one is the 8mm version). I find the 8mm one good for working curves (scalloping)... but still, it seems I am working too hard at this. The bigger Ibex is good for shaping the brace sides. No issues here. Do any of you use anything else to make scalloping easier, cleaner, faster?

Mike
Author:  Blain [ Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Carving the Braces
Hi Mike.

Are you just using the planes or are you using the chisels for scalloping?

I find that using my chisels for this is a breeze.
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Carving the Braces
I am currently using both. BTW, my Ibex planes are curved bottoms. I think I also need the flat ones. I also have a 2 Cherries curved chisel. That came new out of the box with not so good of an edge, so I need to prep it.


Mike
Author:  Heath Blair [ Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Carving the Braces
i have a curved chisel that i dont use as much as i thought i would. at least not for scalloping braces. ive found the best way to do that is to flip your bench or paring or whatever chisel you have upside down. that is, flip the chisel bevel side down. works great and you have more control than you might think.
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Carving the Braces
If you are using the Ibex planes with the edge that they came with, then the problem is that they need to be sharpened.
Author:  TonyFrancis [ Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Carving the Braces
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Author:  jordan aceto [ Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Carving the Braces
I find the chrome vanadium blades that come with the ibex planes to be almost useless. I replaced the blades in all of the ones i use, with a huge increase in performance.
If you have the 18mm version you can buy a replacement hock blade made for the small d'angelico style plane sold by lmi, you have to grind it down a bit to fit.
For the smaller ones, i bought some teeny little laminated steel blades from the japan woodworker that are wonderfull.
Another good source for any blades is st. james bay tools, all the steel i have bought from them has been exelent. they make a nice looking set of violin planes, with spare blades that will probably fit the ibexes.
They are a lot more fun to use with real blades in them.

Also if you have one of those little stanley 100 or similar block planes, you can do a lot of the scalloping with that plane, skewed to the side quite a bit. It works quite fast and gives you a nice curve without really having to think about it.
Author:  Jeremy Douglas [ Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Carving the Braces
"Do any of you use anything else to make scalloping easier, cleaner, faster?"

A bandsaw :lol:
Author:  Hesh [ Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Carving the Braces
Jeremy Douglas wrote:
"Do any of you use anything else to make scalloping easier, cleaner, faster?"

A bandsaw :lol:


Yeah - I don't scallop........ beehive :D
Author:  Hesh [ Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Carving the Braces
Also Howard is right IMHO and I have yet to get a tool, any tool, that was really sharp right out of the box. Even my one Blue Spruce Chisel was not hair popping sharp until I sharpened it.

Most of my brace carving is done with the Ibex planes and I agree that the steel is not very good. I have to resharpen them after every top and back that I do getting only one guitar out of a sharpening session.

My LMI chisel was/is a different story and remains sharp for a couple of guitars.

Good steel makes a huge difference.
Author:  Mark Groza [ Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Carving the Braces
I don't either,the brace is for support and scalloping just weakens it.Think of it like an i-beam the outer edges are where the strength is.Take half it it out and you weaken the brace too much in that area. beehive :D
Author:  Lillian F-W [ Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Carving the Braces
I have an Ibex and a St James Bay 12mm. I prefer the St James hands down. Its easier, more comfortable to hold. The blade was better, its a bit longer, easier to sharpen. And as an added bonus, they are cheaper retail wise, close to half the cost of an Ibex from any of the supply houses.
Author:  Arnt Rian [ Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Carving the Braces
My 5 year old son Rasmus is looking over my shoulder and wanted me use some of these, he thinks they are hilaious:
gaah wow7-eyes eek pizza [headinwall] [xx(] [clap]

Anyways...

Lillian, which 12 mm plane from St. James Bay are you referring to? I have one plane form them, it is this little "Violin Plane with Rosewood Palm Rest".

Image

I only use chisels to carve braces, as I think they are much faster, I only bought this plane for carving archtop mandolin plates. I am not that impressed with the quality to tell you the truth. The mouth opening is huge and the casting is very rough, and generally don't like the way it works. The iron is OK I guess, however I get much better results with my shop made wooden ones with irons cut from old bench plane irons.

About sharpening: I hone my chisels as soon as I feel a bit of resistance while carving, and that is much more frequently than Hesh indicated. I think it is a good idea to have your sharpening equipment always ready to go while using edge tools, and get into the habit of freshening up your tools for a few seconds often, certainly many times while building a guitar.
Author:  LuthierSupplier [ Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Carving the Braces
I recently used this chisel for carving the braces thinner from the side. The natural curve lends itself to putting the curve on as you push the chisel away from you. And unlike most chisels off the shelf, these swiss made chisels are razor sharp and hold their edge for months. I once used one straight off the shelf to carve a hard flamed maple back on a mandolin, and it was still sharp after this!
http://www.woodcraft.com/product.aspx?ProductID=05M13&FamilyID=1231
Attachment:
05M16_230.jpg
Author:  Joe Sustaire [ Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Carving the Braces
Hey Arnt, could you show us some pics of your home-made planes?

Thanks,
Joe
Author:  Pat Foster [ Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Carving the Braces
I use a small spokeshave by X-acto. Definitely hobby quality, but it takes a decent edge and keeps it pretty well if used only on soft woods. I cut off the wings and usually use it on the pull stroke. It's very fast and easy. I also use it a lot for the cross-section shaping.

Pat
Author:  Lillian F-W [ Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Carving the Braces
Arnt I have the 1/2" wide French Style Bow Makers Scraper Plane. I don't like the Ibex for its wedged shape. It feels like it will pop out of my fingers if I hold too tightly.
I picked up this one from ebay. It took me a while to find out where it came from. But now that I know about St James Bay I plan on picking up a few more of their offerings soon.
Author:  TonyFrancis [ Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Carving the Braces
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Author:  Howard Klepper [ Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Carving the Braces
I get the original Ibex blades shaving hairs off the back of my hand. They're not as good as some, but they work.
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Carving the Braces
In the words of Mario when I posted a simular question, "A 1/2" chisel that's very sharp and everything else is fluff". beehive He may have a point. But I'm going to get a double beveled chisel and give it a try and make a curved glue chisel from a Harbor Freight $4 screw driver.
Author:  Kent Chasson [ Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Carving the Braces
I got introduced to Michi chisels and gouges in Somogyi's class. I use them more than my other chisels now. They have a curved end which makes it much easier to taper braces down to the plate without marring the plate. The short blade gives great control. They come with a fairly acute bevel angle which works quite well for brace carving. Takes a very sharp edge and holds it fine as long as you don't dig in hard to a steep cut down end grain.

That is one thing that is helpful for whatever you use. If you can dedicate your chisel or plane to just shaping braces, you can keep a more acute angle on it than for general pupose use.

They sell them here http://www.japanwoodworker.com

Search for michi.
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Carving the Braces
OK, first I am gonna get that sweet two cherries curved chisel sharpened.

Kent, could you be more specific with respect to the actual Michi you are talking about?

Pat, a spoke shave? Really? Just for grins, I tried a card scraper. Not a good idea. But I am intrigued.

I like the idea of the gouged chisel. Gonna look into that.

Mike
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Carving the Braces
LuthierSupplier wrote:
I recently used this chisel for carving the braces thinner from the side. The natural curve lends itself to putting the curve on as you push the chisel away from you. And unlike most chisels off the shelf, these swiss made chisels are razor sharp and hold their edge for months. I once used one straight off the shelf to carve a hard flamed maple back on a mandolin, and it was still sharp after this!
http://www.woodcraft.com/product.aspx?ProductID=05M13&FamilyID=1231
Attachment:
05M16_230.jpg


Tracy, How does one keep such a tool sharp?

Mike
Author:  TonyFrancis [ Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Carving the Braces
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Author:  Kent Chasson [ Thu Jan 08, 2009 2:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Carving the Braces
Mike O'Melia wrote:
Kent, could you be more specific with respect to the actual Michi you are talking about?
Mike


Looks like they call it a bullnose chisel. I have the 5/8" #15.177.150

That and the straight gouge with the gentle #3 sweep are the ones I use most.
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