Right .. but reality has a way of messing things like that up
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| Scale length question http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=20345 |
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| Author: | Dave Rickard [ Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Scale length question |
A little over 2 years ago I cut the flexor tendon for the middle finger on my left hand. I’m right handed so I tried playing left handed, well that’s not going to work for me. I try to pick up a guitar and play every day but I’m easily frustrated. The other day I loosened the strings capoed on the second fret and then brought the guitar (14 fret join 25.4 scale) back into tune. Because the frets are closer and the fret board wider it’s a lot easier to play. My question is. If I build a guitar with the neck join at the 12 fret and a wider neck would get about the same feel as I’m getting with this capoed guitar. |
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| Author: | Kent Chasson [ Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Scale length question |
If I understand the question correctly, the answer is no. You would have to change the scale length to about 22.5" to get the same fret spacing (and string tension), regardless of where the neck joins the body. By the way, I admire your tenacity. |
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| Author: | Dave Rickard [ Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Scale length question |
Thanks Kent, you understood the question correctly. Where can I find plans for a guitar like that? |
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| Author: | Kent Chasson [ Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Scale length question |
I'm actually building 12 of them right now but they are travel guitars, about the size of a baby Taylor. I've never built or seen a full sized guitar with that short of a scale length but someone must have done it. On anything like a conventional body shape, a 12 fret would be helpful in keeping the bridge in the sweet spot. How does your guitar sound when tuned like that? That short of a scale length really makes for loose strings. It becomes a challenge to get punch focus on the low end. |
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| Author: | jordan aceto [ Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Scale length question |
The handy thing is, you dont really need a plan- if you take your 25.4" scale length template and cut out frets 1 and 2, and put your nut where fret 2 would have been, you have an instant short scale template. All other fret positions change in relation to the new nut. The width can be anything you want. 22.5" is pretty short, but if it is a 12 fret body, the bridge will still be in an advantageous spot(close to the center of the lower bout), given a similar body size. Basically just imagine that the space between fret 2 and the nut dissapeared and the nut and headstock moved down to fill in the gap. The signifigant decrease in tension, which comes with the decrease in length, probably would allow for a bit lighter constuction. Short scale guitars, and i'm thinking of some cool old tenor guitars that i have played, can sound really good. |
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| Author: | Todd Rose [ Tue Jan 06, 2009 6:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Scale length question |
Jordan, are you the Jordan Aceto of Ithaca Stringed Instruments? (How many Jordan Acetos can there be?) |
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| Author: | jordan aceto [ Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Scale length question |
That's me. According to quantum physics, there are infinite jordan acetos's. |
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| Author: | TonyKarol [ Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Scale length question |
Right .. but reality has a way of messing things like that up
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| Author: | Dave Rickard [ Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Scale length question |
Kent Chasson wrote: How does your guitar sound when tuned like that? That short of a scale length really makes for loose strings. It becomes a challenge to get punch focus on the low end. Your right Kent, It doesn't have much volume. I had to raise the saddle to keep the strings from buzzing. But it sure is easy to play.  Thanks for all the input and support |
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| Author: | Alan Carruth [ Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Scale length question |
A few years ago I built one with a 20" scale length for a smallish woman who had had enough of trying to reach around Dreads. It looks a little odd: the bridge is about 2" below the soundhole, but it sounds OK. One thing you can do when you build one like that from scratch is reduce the thickness of the top and the weight of the bracing. The tension is lower, so you don't need the top to be a strong. I'd also advise that if you're going to do this use a small pattern: the one I built was based on my classical mold, which is about a 00 size. This will also allow you to lighten up on the top vs a larger pattern, and when can lighten the top you'll most likely get more volume. |
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| Author: | Howard Klepper [ Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Scale length question |
jordan aceto wrote: That's me. According to quantum physics, there are infinite jordan acetos's. Yes, but they are on other possible worlds. |
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| Author: | Todd Rose [ Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Scale length question |
Howard Klepper wrote: jordan aceto wrote: That's me. According to quantum physics, there are infinite jordan acetos's. Yes, but they are on other possible worlds. Yeah, and I'll bet none of them can hold a candle to THIS Jordan's talents and skills as both a luthier and a musician. You oughta see the guitars, mandos, and violins that come out of the Ithaca Stringed Instruments shop, and hear the music that flows from the playing of Jordan and his papa Eric, not to mention his uncle Harry (who is also a luthier). Nowhere else in the universe, man... |
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| Author: | Todd Rose [ Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Scale length question |
Anyway, Dave, back on topic... do you have your mind set on a guitar that would be tuned in standard tuning? What about a guitar designed to be tuned a whole step higher (F#BEAC#F#), or even GCFBbDG? If you want to be able to to make a guitar with such a short scale length and have string tensions more like a standard guitar for volume and tone, you could use heavier strings. Using available information, you could calculate the string gauges necessary, and should be able to get very close to normal tensions. This, of course, would mean that the guitar wouldn't be as super-easy to play as your capoed-and-slackened guitar. Nor would the strings have exactly the same feel as a normally strung standard guitar, due to the heavier gauges. But the tensions, at least, could be right for good sound, and the fret spacings right for your special playability needs. Obviously, you could also make the neck width and string spacing exactly how you want it as well. You could also go for a middle ground: short scale, string gauges beefed-up just a bit, tensions somewhere between normal and your capoed-and-slackened guitar. Make the top somewhat lighter for somewhat lower-than-usual tensions, and you should have a nice-sounding box. |
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