Official Luthiers Forum! :: View topic - Fretboard Alignment

I shape the heel up to the transition and the headstock back just past the nut leaving the rest of the shaft untouched. When it comes time to glue up the fretted board, I position it dry, hard up against a temp nut tacked into position against the headstock veneer. I then HHG 6 small glue blocks, 3 either side of the FB, onto the waist wood of the neck shaft and using a radiused caul slotted for the frets, I clamp the FB in place. When the glue has cured I then shape the neck shaft removing the glue blocks in the process.

No pins, no leaving frets out and perfect alignment. [:Y:]

Cheers

Kim

I believe the cut off staple is a Rick Turner trick, if I recall correctly.

J, I attach my necks the same way as Mario.

before fretting, allign the fretboard on the neck, clamp down, drill through two of the frets (avoid the trussrod and carbon bars if you have them) with a 1/16" bit into the neck **DON'T DRILL TO DEEP INTO THE NECK**. Remove the fretboard. Now, you need to use #16 finishing nails (these nails are 0.063", perfect size), I buy the brass nails as they are soft enough to use fret end clippers to cut off the point. Now put them into the hole in the neck. Now you don't need much of the nail to go into the fretboard so just leave about 1/16" proud of the neck surface. Test the fretboard on the neck with the pins in place, you should have no problems with the fret in those two slots seating.

Now you can fret the board and attach to the neck in your method of choice.

Kim wrote:

Cheers

Kim

Oh that's good.

Rod, do you pull the finish nails out once the glue is dry or push them down into the neck below the fretboard to install the frets?

One thing I'm careful about, and would be even more careful about if I fretted before attaching the FB to neck, is neck movement when carving. I wouldn't attach a fretted board to a neck unless I'd carved the neck pretty dang close to its final shape. It can really move a lot when you take off that much wood, so you don't want your nice fretted FB to end up with a nice big bow in it.

Author:	j.Brown [ Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Fretboard Alignment - Mario's Method
I've been using Mario's method of fretting before attaching lately with a lot of success, but have been leaving out 2 frets for alignment pins. After a little more reading, it appears this is not how Grumpy does it, but I can't find out how he DOES do it (FB alignment while epoxying to the neck). Anybody have the answer or links to it anyway? Thanks. -j.

Author:	Chris Paulick [ Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Fretboard Alignment - Mario's Method
Check his website and see if there is something there. He may just put a staple or piece of a brad with the head cut off in the neck and press the board on to it and then glue it up. Seems like I got that trick from someone, maybe him. You might try and post a question at MIMF where he can be found.

Author:	Jim Watts [ Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Fretboard Alignment - Mario's Method
I have no idea how Grumpy does it. Here's what I do however and it allows you install all of your frets, not just 18.: Drill 2 small holes through two of the fret slots - like you did. remove the fret board, flip it over and drill a 1/16 hole on top of the small holes, making sure to not break into the fret slot. Drill the 1/16 hole in the neck blank also. using 1/16 diameter rod make a couple of locating pins just tall enough to engage the fret board by about 1/16 or so and go into the neck blank. You now have accurate positive location and can install ALL of your frets prior to putting the fingerboard on. You have to pay a lot of attention to your finger board straightness to pull this off well.

Author:	Terence Kennedy [ Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:44 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Fretboard Alignment - Mario's Method
Here's what I've been doing for several years and it works great for me. Make a fretboard template out of 3/4 fibercore or similar material with locating pins for your truss rod slot on the centerline. Put 1/8" drill bushings where you want your locating pins for the fretboard. Be sure to avoid your reinforcing bars if any. Position the template on the neck exactly where you want the fretboard to be, clamp and drill your holes. Flip the template over and clamp your fretboard to the other side lining up centerline marks on the fretboard and template. Drill your holes in the fretboard with a stopped drill bit. I use 1/8" wood dowel pieces for alignment pins. Just another way to skin a cat. Terry

Author:	Rod True [ Sun Jan 04, 2009 2:10 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Fretboard Alignment - Mario's Method
J, I attach my necks the same way as Mario. before fretting, allign the fretboard on the neck, clamp down, drill through two of the frets (avoid the trussrod and carbon bars if you have them) with a 1/16" bit into the neck DON'T DRILL TO DEEP INTO THE NECK. Remove the fretboard. Now, you need to use #16 finishing nails (these nails are 0.063", perfect size), I buy the brass nails as they are soft enough to use fret end clippers to cut off the point. Now put them into the hole in the neck. Now you don't need much of the nail to go into the fretboard so just leave about 1/16" proud of the neck surface. Test the fretboard on the neck with the pins in place, you should have no problems with the fret in those two slots seating. Now you can fret the board and attach to the neck in your method of choice.

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Author:	Kim [ Sun Jan 04, 2009 4:18 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Fretboard Alignment - Mario's Method
I shape the heel up to the transition and the headstock back just past the nut leaving the rest of the shaft untouched. When it comes time to glue up the fretted board, I position it dry, hard up against a temp nut tacked into position against the headstock veneer. I then HHG 6 small glue blocks, 3 either side of the FB, onto the waist wood of the neck shaft and using a radiused caul slotted for the frets, I clamp the FB in place. When the glue has cured I then shape the neck shaft removing the glue blocks in the process. No pins, no leaving frets out and perfect alignment. Cheers Kim

Author:	Bill Greene [ Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Fretboard Alignment - Mario's Method
Kim wrote: I shape the heel up to the transition and the headstock back just past the nut leaving the rest of the shaft untouched. When it comes time to glue up the fretted board, I position it dry, hard up against a temp nut tacked into position against the headstock veneer. I then HHG 6 small glue blocks, 3 either side of the FB, onto the waist wood of the neck shaft and using a radiused caul slotted for the frets, I clamp the FB in place. When the glue has cured I then shape the neck shaft removing the glue blocks in the process. No pins, no leaving frets out and perfect alignment. Cheers Kim Oh that's good.

Author:	Chris Paulick [ Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Fretboard Alignment - Mario's Method
I've simply shot or tapped a staple in across the truss rod channel at the front and back so that it isn't drove home and flush. Then with diagonal pliers snipped the head of the staple off leaving a small stub up. Line up the fret board and press it down and set the staple heads into the bottom of the board. It just has to be enough stub to keep the board from sliding when glued. You could use just 2 small brads, one at each end or whatever. Works for me and if you misaline it you can pull the the staple with the diag. pliers or tap it flush if you can't pull it and try again. I've also seen a method that's simular to Terence's where you use a template to set the two locating pins that is used from locating the the board from slotting it to radiusing to setting it.

Author:	WaddyThomson [ Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Fretboard Alignment - Mario's Method
I believe the cut off staple is a Rick Turner trick, if I recall correctly.

Author:	Chris Paulick [ Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Fretboard Alignment - Mario's Method
Could be, it's from years ago at MIMF. Probably in the library over there. I found this: http://www.mimf.com/library/creeping_fretboard.htm

Author:	ChuckH [ Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Fretboard Alignment - Mario's Method
WaddyThomson wrote: I believe the cut off staple is a Rick Turner trick, if I recall correctly. Frank Finocchio does it this way in his videos too. But, he staples the staple in the ebony first. It makes since that the pointed staple will sink into the softer mahogany easier than having the staple try to pierce the ebony. But, then again, I haven't tried it.

Author:	Rod True [ Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Fretboard Alignment - Mario's Method
I've done the staple method in the past and it worked ok. The only thing that could be an issue with it is when pushing the fretboard down on the neck, it can possibly shift out of location or not get in the correct location (even a little bit can throw off the yaw of the neck a fair bit and cause a lot of sanding at the heal cheeks to correct it). I don't know why I switched to the drill and pin method honestly but I do find I get the fretboard fit right on the centerline of the neck, this is over the last 2 fretboard/neck glue ups.

Author:	Chris Paulick [ Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Fretboard Alignment - Mario's Method
I think I might try the pin with the wax method like in the MIMF discussion on my next one.

Author:	Jeff Highland [ Mon Jan 05, 2009 12:00 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Fretboard Alignment - Mario's Method
I use 1/16' plastic rod as the pins. After drilling through the board and into the neck,iIcut the rod so only about 3/16" protrudes then fret the board and install Works great, no need to pull out metal pins or have clearance holes in the caul.

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Author:	ChuckH [ Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:41 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Fretboard Alignment - Mario's Method
Rod True wrote: J, I attach my necks the same way as Mario. before fretting, allign the fretboard on the neck, clamp down, drill through two of the frets (avoid the trussrod and carbon bars if you have them) with a 1/16" bit into the neck DON'T DRILL TO DEEP INTO THE NECK. Remove the fretboard. Now, you need to use #16 finishing nails (these nails are 0.063", perfect size), I buy the brass nails as they are soft enough to use fret end clippers to cut off the point. Now put them into the hole in the neck. Now you don't need much of the nail to go into the fretboard so just leave about 1/16" proud of the neck surface. Test the fretboard on the neck with the pins in place, you should have no problems with the fret in those two slots seating. Now you can fret the board and attach to the neck in your method of choice. Rod, do you pull the finish nails out once the glue is dry or push them down into the neck below the fretboard to install the frets?

Author:	Chris Paulick [ Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:06 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Fretboard Alignment - Mario's Method
I see the MIMF link does't get you to the library discussion. But Dave Collins waxes his pins and pulls them after glued. Amy Hopkins doesn't like leaving anything that will make it harder on the next person.

Author:	Kim [ Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:21 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Fretboard Alignment - Mario's Method
Bill Greene wrote: Kim wrote: I shape the heel up to the transition and the headstock back just past the nut leaving the rest of the shaft untouched. When it comes time to glue up the fretted board, I position it dry, hard up against a temp nut tacked into position against the headstock veneer. I then HHG 6 small glue blocks, 3 either side of the FB, onto the waist wood of the neck shaft and using a radiused caul slotted for the frets, I clamp the FB in place. When the glue has cured I then shape the neck shaft removing the glue blocks in the process. No pins, no leaving frets out and perfect alignment. Cheers Kim Oh that's good. Thanks Bill, glad you like it

Author:	Rod True [ Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:29 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Fretboard Alignment - Mario's Method
ChuckH wrote: Rod, do you pull the finish nails out once the glue is dry or push them down into the neck below the fretboard to install the frets? Chuck, the nails stay in the neck. I also fret the entire board, even the slots where the alignment holes are before attaching it to the neck. When trimming them to length (the alignment pins), you have to make sure they don't stick up to high otherwise they will push the fret up.

Author:	wbergman [ Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:58 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Fretboard Alignment - Mario's Method
I used small pins on my first fingerboard. I then used large C-clamps. The torque from the clamps was enough to deform the holes in the wood and the fingerboard slid out of postion. You would not notice the sliding when testing dry, because of the friction of the wood surface prevents sliding, but when lubricated with glue, they can slide. So, you still need to be careful when applying clamping pressure.

Author:	BobK [ Mon Jan 05, 2009 12:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Fretboard Alignment - Mario's Method
+1 on Kim's method. I use basically the same technique. Like Kim, I use a temporary nut (or ramp if I'm binding the headstock) to "stop" the fretboard at the zero fret. Then I clamp the board in position and use medium CA to glue four 1 inch long scrap pieces of binding to the neck shaft. When finally gluing the board to the neck, I slightly tilt the clamps so that the board is pushed against the nut stop and wedged between the binding scraps. Works like a charm.

Author:	Bob Garrish [ Mon Jan 05, 2009 12:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Fretboard Alignment - Mario's Method
I use 1/8" hardwood dowel as pins and I use four of them if I'm worried about sliding. Aluminum rod works alright, as well, and it's almost as easy to cut through but there's no reason to use it over the dowel-chunks.

Author:	SniderMike [ Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Fretboard Alignment - Mario's Method
I fret after gluing on the FB, but I still do pretty much the same thing as Rod, but I use brad nails for pins, and also use them as my drill bit. Just cut the head off, chuck it up in the drill, and go through the fingerboard (clamped in place), into the neck. Remove FB, snip nails. One thing I'm careful about, and would be even more careful about if I fretted before attaching the FB to neck, is neck movement when carving. I wouldn't attach a fretted board to a neck unless I'd carved the neck pretty dang close to its final shape. It can really move a lot when you take off that much wood, so you don't want your nice fretted FB to end up with a nice big bow in it.

Author:	Robbie O'Brien [ Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Fretboard Alignment - Mario's Method
SniderMike wrote: One thing I'm careful about, and would be even more careful about if I fretted before attaching the FB to neck, is neck movement when carving. I wouldn't attach a fretted board to a neck unless I'd carved the neck pretty dang close to its final shape. It can really move a lot when you take off that much wood, so you don't want your nice fretted FB to end up with a nice big bow in it. Amen brother!