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| Fretboard/Fretting Procedures http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=20307 |
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| Author: | George L [ Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Fretboard/Fretting Procedures |
I've read various approaches as to how and when to install frets and affix the fretboard to the neck. Based on my own extremely limited experience, I'm leaning toward bolting/gluing the neck, installing the frets in the fretboard, affixing the fretboard to the neck, then dressing the frets. This worked for me pretty well the last time, but fretting before gluing on the neck introduced a lot of distortion to the fretboard. While everything seemed to flatten out when glued, I'd be curious to learn how others handle these steps and why a different approach may be preferrable. Also, in another thread, the use of pre-measured packets of West Systems epoxy was mentioned as an excellent product for gluing the fretboard to the neck. I went to the West Systems website and found something called a 101-6 Maxi Repair Pack. Is this what you are using? Here's a link: http://www.westsystem.com/ss/105-system-kits Thanks! |
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fretboard/Fretting Procedures |
when you are using an interference fit for frets you are going to use either a hammer or a press to get the frets into the slots. This will deform the board. On non adjustable truss rods we use this fact to adjust reliefe. The term is often called compression fretting. It is normal for that process. where most people get into trouble is when they glue them onto a neck without clamping the neck and board together on a flat surface. I use a granite plate though I have used my table saw table , my jointer bed. This glues the board and neck together on plane. Without this your neck is going to take a shape from the resultant force of the board and neck. This is something that is a random process and using the flat surface will take the variation out . If you fret after you glue on the board you will see a major change in the neck geometry. Another method is when you open the fret slots and you require epoxy. Then you can fret and control the plane of the neck very well. As you build , you will find that your techniques will steer you to where you get the best results. john |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fretboard/Fretting Procedures |
George buddy here is what I am using from West - I checked the site and don't see it either. Attachment: DSCN3062.jpg Regarding fretting I've fretted the board off the neck and on the neck and both ways worked out OK for me. But my preference is to fret the board on the neck these days because it gives me the opportunity to temporally attach the neck with the board already glued (epoxy) and then level the thing with my Stew-Mac radius beam. At least this way I know that I am starting with a level fret board when it's on the neck. I switched to epoxy to glue on the fret board because water based glues can result in some warping and back-bow. I have had this happen to me so I wanted to take this possibility out the equation all together and that is why I use epoxy these days to glue on the fret board. Of course as with all things guitar building YMMV and lots of folks have glued on fret boards with water based glues with good results myself included. There was an article on GuitarMaker a couple of years ago that Mario wrote where he details how he installs the frets on the fret board and off the neck. It's a great article and also has some tips for getting consistently great results. I don't have this issue anymore or I would offer to send it to you. Anyway my opinion is that for those of us who don't do this very often and don't have a methodology perfected it's a safer bet to fret the board after it's on the neck and leveled. |
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| Author: | Kent Chasson [ Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fretboard/Fretting Procedures |
George L wrote: This worked for me pretty well the last time, but fretting before gluing on the neck introduced a lot of distortion to the fretboard. Fretting after gluing it on puts the same stresses on the neck. It just shows up less because of the added stiffness of the neck. But, as John said, fretting after will induce a backbow. One reason I'm a big fan of pre-fretting is that the backbow induced by fretting varies based on the density of the wood. Harder wood like ebony backbows more, IRW less. If you pre-fret, you can take some of that mystery out of the equation by a combination of flattening the board after fretting and gluing it to the neck on a flat surface (or one with a pre-determined backbow, if desired). Here are the pros and cons of each as I have experienced... Pre-fretting Pros -more predictable -allows pressing all frets (a plus in my book) -allows dressing the fret ends over the body without the body in the way Pre-fretting Cons -requires a bit mor jigging to deal with clamping two irregular surfaces together -allows no adjusting the fretboard surface after gluing Post-fretting Pros -allows leveling the board after gluing and attaching to the body Post-fretting Cons -risk to the guitar body when hammering frets, clipping and finishing ends -unknown how much backbow induced -have to hammer at least some frets |
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| Author: | Erik Hauri [ Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fretboard/Fretting Procedures |
I also fret with the board off the neck - you can work out the backbow in the fretboard before you glue it onto the neck (I use epoxy as well). There is also less backbow on a fretboard with binding. IME it is just easier for me to make the fretboard perfect while it's off the neck - it also minimizes the amount of fretwork you have to do after gluing the board onto the neck. |
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| Author: | jordan aceto [ Sat Jan 03, 2009 7:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fretboard/Fretting Procedures |
Hello, i am a new person to this forum. One very important point to bring up is the almost inevitable body joint hump that new guitars develop over the first few months of their life. This is the slight raise of the fingerboard centered over the body joint, and extending a fret or so in either direction. My procedure has always been to level the fingerboard after it has been glued to the neck and body and then fret the perfectly level board, preferably after a bit of time has passed and the hump has done its thing. I dont think the amount of deformation is something any of us can control completely, so i would rather plane it out before the frets are in, rather than filing frets 13 through 15(on a 14 fret neck) lower than the rest to compensate. I worked above a guitar store for years doing repairs and setups, and just about all the new guitars needed this hump filed out to play properly, leading to low flat frets above the body joint. When you see something that is a constant problem, you try to avoid it in your own instruments, hence leveling and then freting after gluing. It sounds like people are getting good results freting first though, so its a bit of a judgement call. You do have to be carefull while planing and freting with your beautiful new guitar right under you, especially nipping and filing the waste off of the frets over the body. Big thick cardboard or whatever body shields work well. Anyways, thats my story, and it's mine. |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Sat Jan 03, 2009 7:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fretboard/Fretting Procedures |
Hey Jordan - Welcome to the OLF!
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| Author: | George L [ Sat Jan 03, 2009 8:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fretboard/Fretting Procedures |
Thanks for the detailed replies. I really appreciate all of you taking the time to describe your approach to this step in the building process. I would have posted this follow-up earlier but I ended up running a bunch of errands today. Tomorrow should be my day to work on the guitar. Can't wait! Best regards, |
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| Author: | Ken C [ Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fretboard/Fretting Procedures |
Interesting thread. I glued my fingerboard on a couple of days with epoxy, but I didn't clamp it to a flat surface. I applied even clamping pressure down the fretboard, but not too tight so to starve the joint. when I pulled all the clamps after the epoxy dried, I found I had a very slight bow to the fretboard. Not apparent warpage, just an extremely slight bow. I didn't worry much about this as I thought adjusting the truss rod would put the relief back in that I was looking for. Am I wrong? Ken |
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| Author: | Larry Drover [ Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fretboard/Fretting Procedures |
I also glue on the fingerboard before installing the frets...I have found that, for me,when I spend extra time leveling the fretboard and then install the frets there is very little or no fret leveling to be done.I use a .023 kerf with a .023 fret tang..For those of you who install the frets first...Do you level your fretboard on some flat surface before installing the frets? |
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