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| curly redwood soundboards? http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=20295 |
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| Author: | Doug Powdrell [ Fri Jan 02, 2009 7:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | curly redwood soundboards? |
Is curly redwood good for soundboards?? spin off from the previous discussion of the soundboard bellying, etc. Living in the land of Redwood (Humboldt county, northwest calif.), but not an expert on wood.....it is my understanding that curly redwood is situated near the bottom of the massive old growth, where compression of the wood is inherent...the grains are compressed with tons of growth causing the curly grain...therefore not 'straight grained'. Have used it to trim some windows and doors, etc, and looks very 'leopard like' (beautiful), and seems the density is similar to vertical grain redwood...? I looks gorgeous, BUT is it suited as a soundboard???? Is it stable having a curly grain? Is it a compressed spring waiting to straighten out???? Would like to hear from other builders or suppliers who have used/tested it. Hesitant to use it compared to straigth grained wood. Maybe alternate bracing to compensate for the curly grain??? Happy New Year!!!! |
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| Author: | peterm [ Fri Jan 02, 2009 9:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: curly redwood soundboards? |
I have used it multiple times. Makes a great sounding guitar but a straight grained redwood top will be far more superior... structurally and tonally. I only use them in a double top configuration as the runout poses a most probable problem.... with that being said, can't beat its beauty!  
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| Author: | Jim Watts [ Fri Jan 02, 2009 9:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: curly redwood soundboards? |
Doug, You can't possibly live in Humbolt county, the sun in your avatar gives you away  BTW, I know nothing about redwood soundboards. |
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| Author: | Doug Powdrell [ Fri Jan 02, 2009 10:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: curly redwood soundboards? |
Peterm: What a beautiful curly soundboard!!!! Incredible grain!!! More pics of your guitar??? Love the idea of the double top, but not sure how to get there at this time ( inside skin, bracing, nomex?).....would like to explore this wood more.... Jim; Yes, we do get some sun in Humboldt county, sometimes, mostly build in 50-65F, 40-70 % hum.....guitars are mostly 'coastal guitars'.... |
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| Author: | Hank Mauel [ Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: curly redwood soundboards? |
Here's an example of a flamed redwood soundboard...no sandwich or unusual bracing of any kind...but I did make the bridge plate a bit larger to help reinforce the surrounding grain under the bridge. But Peter is correct, they are VERY finicky pieces of wood. This instrument is owned by a gentleman up in Portland area so it gets ample humidity, doesn't get played at bars and is cared for like a baby. |
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| Author: | Doug Powdrell [ Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: curly redwood soundboards? |
Hank; Absolutely beautiful slice of curly!!!!!! ![[:Y:]](./images/smilies/smiley20.gif "Thumbs Up") , more pics??......Redwood loves the humidity, I think....Portland is a good home. I like your idea of an enlarged bridge patch to spread the stress across the grain.... I'm thinkin' that a curly soundboard might like some radius in both directions, especially longitudinal, ......to stretch the grain a bit....still scratchin' my head...love how tonewoods keep my mind moving..... |
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| Author: | wklee [ Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: curly redwood soundboards? |
[b]Dear Doug I have just taken delivery of the following quilted redwood top guitar : http://guitar4christ.com/modules.php?na ... ic&t=23637 Soundwise, it is very good. Cheers,
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| Author: | Hesh [ Sat Jan 03, 2009 7:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: curly redwood soundboards? |
Beautiful guitars Peter and Hank! ![[clap]](./images/smilies/smiley32.gif "adulations") Here's my curly Redwood guitar. It's just over 3 years old now and doing fine beyond needing some new strings.......   I am not disagreeing that curly RW is not as stable as other top woods but I didn't have any issues using it and now 3 years later it doing great. This top is .125 thick.Attachment: DSC00025rr.jpg Attachment: DSCN1032r.jpg
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| Author: | Kim [ Sat Jan 03, 2009 7:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: curly redwood soundboards? |
Great guitars guys, all are truly excellent I think Peter's approach of using double top construction is a very wise way to over come the problem of the longitudinal weakness and instability presented by the short grain which makes the 'curl' in curly redwood. If I recall correctly, the top on Hesh's guitar was treated with epoxy which not only 'popped' the grain, but I imagine would have also gone a very long way toward locking or stabilising the grain. Once again, I think it comes down to the piece of wood at hand, but I think Peter's approach is one way to ensure that a curly redwood topped guitar will be around and playing just as long as any other. Cheers Kim |
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| Author: | James Ringelspaugh [ Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: curly redwood soundboards? |
Why do we use spruce, cedar, and redwood for guitar tops? Because they have very large stiffness to weight raitios along the grain. Curly redwood has a much lower stiffness to weight ratio than normal redwood, so it is not ideal. Obviously it can be used with success, but it needs to be thicker than other topwoods to resist the pull of the strings or else the bracing must be beefier. In the end by using curly redwood as opposed to more traditional woods you are adding extra mass to the top. |
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| Author: | Darryl Young [ Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: curly redwood soundboards? |
wklee wrote: [b] I have just taken delivery of the following quilted redwood top guitar : Soundwise, it is very good. Cheers, wklee wklee, that guitar is beautiful! Different, unique, and beautiful! Here are a few pics of the eye candy in case someone doesn't click the link.......   
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| Author: | Howard Klepper [ Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: curly redwood soundboards? |
I still can't understand why anyone puts looks so far ahead of function. |
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| Author: | Hank Mauel [ Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: curly redwood soundboards? |
Hesh wrote: Beautiful guitars Peter and Hank! Here's my curly Redwood guitar. It's just over 3 years old now and doing fine beyond needing some new strings....... I am not disagreeing that curly RW is not as stable as other top woods but I didn't have any issues using it and now 3 years later it doing great. This top is .125 thick.By the by...I just looked up the build date for that guitar and it was 2000. So it's going on 9 years now. There were other pieces of that flamed redwood that I would NOT have used on an acoustic. They went to a friend who built some electrics with the redwood as the top overlay. And there were not any "sandwich" tops at that time to the best of my recollection. The Nomex idea is a more recent development and I know Peter used it on a flamed top that I sent him. I still have about a half dozen sets and I may try a "sandwich" top one day. |
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| Author: | TonyKarol [ Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: curly redwood soundboards? |
I too have built with flamed redwood .. but i also have some tops that are about as flexible as pick guard material, and another that seems reasonably stiff long grain. But I have changed my mind on ever using the stuff again on acoustics .. too unstable IMO. They are all slated for electric drop tops at some point in the future. One thing that some need to consider as well is that you are gluing your bridge to this material, whether its a double top or not, and that joint is certainly compromised vs using a std spruce top - you are gluing to short grain, in some spots end grain .. not very strong in comparison - I would NEVER use a truly pinless bridge on the stuff (I know Peter uses metal pins into the bridge plate - good idea here) the Batson is different again as there is limited pull on the top at the bridge with their design ... makes it somewhat safer to use as a topwood. But I am still guessing that over time, it will ripple some. |
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| Author: | Doug Powdrell [ Sat Jan 03, 2009 6:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: curly redwood soundboards? |
Incredible looking guitars, guys/gals... Thanks. May have to give curly a go in the near future.....wklee; your headstock/fretbaord/soundboard wood pattern is phenomenol...what type of wood is the headstock/fretboard...they all flow together perfectly (IMHO). Overall, an absolutely beautiful looking (and as you say, sounding) archtop. WOW. Who is that builder of such a fine instrument?? |
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| Author: | wklee [ Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: curly redwood soundboards? |
Dear Doug The headplate and fretboard are made from African Blackwood. The builder is Cory Batson from Nashville. |
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| Author: | DannyV [ Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: curly redwood soundboards? |
Hmmm. I just had a back hoe in my yard split up a big cedar stump and drop if in the burn pile. I think it looks a lot like that. I haven't lit the fire yet. Maybe I should fish it out, cut it up and put it on E Bay. 
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| Author: | Zach Ehley [ Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: curly redwood soundboards? |
I've been think about this one for the last day. I have a few CRW tops in the zoot pile that I've been getting more and more apprehensive on using. I see people doing double tops with it on top of spruce with a nomex core. I assume that dosnt result in a true redwood sound. What about simply laminating a CRW piece on a straight grain RW piece? 50/50 or 30/70..whatever it may be. All RW with added strength of straight grain supporting the curly. |
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| Author: | Doug Powdrell [ Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: curly redwood soundboards? |
Zach; I'll let the experts weigh-in, but I think the logic is sound, especially in conjunction with bracing to compensate for potential movement. Could produce great results in terms of strength and redwood tone.....don't think creep would pose an issue....however, 'assuming' a 40% CRW, that would equate to, say, 0.050" plate (0.125" total)...do-able? Possibly. Adhesive???? Not sure. I like the concept and maybe others will provide their opinions.... |
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