lexton128 wrote:
.... but not really any information on what the pay is like. I know there is probably a HUGE range of possibility, but any ball park figures?
Do you like ramen noodles?
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| Author: | lexton128 [ Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | lutherie school |
Hi, I'm new to this forum so here's a little bit about me. I just got out of high school last year and have been brain storming potential career options and guitar building/repairs seems like a really cool option. I'm fascinated by acoustic guitars and well i guess guitars/stringed instruments in general and I've been considering going to a masters program for guitar building. So I guess, what I'm try to ask is, Is it worth it? What kind of opportunities are there for this field? Are there any professional luthiers that would recommend anything to me? I've done a lot of research on guitar building and any day now I'll be ordering a "kit" guitar from stewmac to build that to be sure of it before I do make any commitments. I've found schools, but not really any information on what the pay is like. I know there is probably a HUGE range of possibility, but any ball park figures? I'd appreciate and information anyone can give me. Especially some input from the people doing lutherie as thier living. Thanks, Dan Bombliss |
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| Author: | John Lewis [ Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: lutherie school |
lexton128 wrote: .... but not really any information on what the pay is like. I know there is probably a HUGE range of possibility, but any ball park figures? Do you like ramen noodles?
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| Author: | Hesh [ Wed Dec 31, 2008 8:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: lutherie school |
Hi Dan and welcome to the OLF! ![[:Y:]](./images/smilies/smiley20.gif "Thumbs Up") ![[clap]](./images/smilies/smiley32.gif "adulations") I must say that your post impressed me because you have been doing your homework already and the idea of building a kit that you have is an excellent idea. Building a kit and taking advantage of any opportunities that you have to work on some beater guitars to gain repair experience will serve you very well my friend. I don't make my living from Lutherie but there are folks here that do who may weigh-in here and advise you on the financial aspects of the opportunity. One suggestion that I have for you is to consider a combined approach where you pursue a traditional college degree at the same time that you receive formal Lutherie training. There are some places where you can do this with Red Rocks Community College in Colorado and Robbie O'Brien coming to mind. Welcome aboard. |
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| Author: | Robbie O'Brien [ Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: lutherie school |
Welcome to the OLF Dan. Like anything in life there is a price to be paid and lutherie definitely has a price. However, some people just seem to have to have some way to express themselves artistically no matter what the price. If you can adjust your lifestyle accordingly then you should be fine. Hesh's advice of pursuing a traditional college education at the same time you pursue your lutherie education is a good one and I also would recommend this route. |
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| Author: | Link Van Cleave [ Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: lutherie school |
Dan, Reading your thoughtful and well written letter I have no doubt you will be successful in what ever you pursue. You are on the right track to check out a kit and ask questions here on this forum. I would recommend that you go to a school for the life experience whether you end up with a career in lutherie or not. A woodworking school is also a option as having skills in general woodworking will serve you well and is directly transferable to Lutherie. A good school is a great experience where you will be supported and nurtured to success. The camaraderie and friendships you develop can last a life time. The skills you learn are invaluable in ways that go beyond just the physical skills. They will serve you your whole life. So I would say to follow your desire and go for it even if it doesn't lead to a permanent career or making a lot of money. Chances are you will wear several hats in your life and this one will just add to your life and make it richer. You never know where things will lead. Good luck, Link |
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| Author: | Bob Garrish [ Wed Dec 31, 2008 3:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: lutherie school |
Lutherie is a tough business. If you're good at marketing and business management, then doing repairs and owning a music store can support you but you'll need really solid chops to get started which will require a bunch of experience and there's a huge risk in opening any business. If they own their own operation (ie: work for themselves rather than in someone else's shop) the repairmen I know all make better hourly wages than all luthiers I know with -very- few exceptions. If you discount say the top 2-3% of steel string luthiers (by pay) then they all make less than a good repair guy. A lot of luthiers supplement their income with repairs. Building a career trajectory, from my view, is the safest ways to get into lutherie. Kevin Ryan and Mario Proulx both have engineering backgrounds, and that sort of experience and understanding of the mechanics shows in their work. Having that sort of background lets you ease your way into lutherie while supporting yourself and having an out if, for example, the economy crashes and people aren't buying 'small' luxuries like high-end guitars. Having a backup and easing into the industry also allows you to 'burn' (metaphorically or literally) your early guitars rather than having pressure to sell them to continue building, which can prevent the oh-so-scary 'returning to haunt you' scenario which has happened to many builders who started selling too soon. You can get some 'street cred' by working at a guitar company and building on your own until you've got enough reputation to break away, but guitar companies pay pretty poorly on average compared to non-industry jobs at the same skill level. |
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| Author: | Laurent Brondel [ Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: lutherie school |
Bob Garrish wrote: You can get some 'street cred' by working at a guitar company and building on your own until you've got enough reputation to break away, but guitar companies pay pretty poorly on average compared to non-industry jobs at the same skill level. How true… As far as I know all small production shops have a similar pay structure, starting at the very low end (around $10/hour) and staying there for a long time, if not forever… It's not much. Being young, having modest living requirements and being able to relocate is a must. In any case very few guitar builders access anything resembling middle-class income, so getting used to frugality is an advantage. But the bright side of working for a while in a small production shop environment is the invaluable experience to be gained for somebody passionate and paying attention. It's pretty close to a one-man shop and has little to do with Taylor or Martin highly automatised methods. With an output of several hundreds instruments per year one can see virtually any problems arising with the building of a guitar (Murphy is always close by…), the solutions applied, put his or her hands on a lot of wood and learn a good bit about techniques, jigging and so on. Additionally there are always at least a couple of excellent senior craftsmen more than willing to share their knowledge. There's always some repair work going on as well, as those shops handle their warranty work in house. I know also that they tend to recruit in the few lutherie schools existing in the country (Red Wing, Galloup etc.). |
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| Author: | stan thomison [ Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: lutherie school |
Luarent has it right. We both worked at the same shop, just different times. The folks there are some top notch builders. Might not have heard of them as household names, but they know building very well and make on their own some of the best I have seen or heard. Most were not builders when started or just out of one of the schools. They got their knowledge and ability to make great guitars working long hours, for little pay and sticking with it. But that is just life in anything. If you love it and want to do it, you will sacrifice to get there. Although John Slobod is my favorite and one guy if and when get the bucks will own one of his guitars along with a Moll. If dead set on a "lutherie" school, I did Galloup and great school. It is more on the building end with some repair. If knowing what know now, would have went with more training in the repair part, with some building or go for both. Red Rocks in Denver is a great idea. You get first bit of college and training in building as you go. If can get college as you learn and build, I would really think of that as the first option. Can't get better than Robbie and Mike as builders or just good guys. Once out of school, rather than hanging shingle and saying ready for business, would check out small production shop. We did I think average of 8-10 guitars a week. Might start out doing one thing, but with turn around or needs and as prove self get to do more. After a few years, although lower pay (not bad if single and young) will have done many many guitars on almost all aspects. Then when open shop have way more knowledge building and repairing. Also can look for an apprentice job, but many of them like someone with some experience so can be of some help from the start, and then learn the rest while working hind end off. Thing is, it takes patients in this work. You have to make your own name and bones, and although folks get along, it is still business, so better have all your ducks in a row. Take the time and do it right. You sound as if your of that nature anyway, so better off than with rose colored glasses. |
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| Author: | Bob Garrish [ Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: lutherie school |
Laurent Brondel wrote: Bob Garrish wrote: You can get some 'street cred' by working at a guitar company and building on your own until you've got enough reputation to break away, but guitar companies pay pretty poorly on average compared to non-industry jobs at the same skill level. It's pretty close to a one-man shop and has little to do with Taylor or Martin highly automatised methods. Funny thing: after my time with Al Carruth learning the old-school bread and butter, I 'stole' the ideas and techniques I based my lutherie business on from spending a few days with an 'all access pass' at Taylor . To be fair, though, without the Al-schooling, I'd have had no basis upon which to understand or use what I learned at Taylor.(To be fair, I got an awful lot of remote tutoring from Kevin Ryan when I was getting started as, well. I swear even just shaking hands with Kevin can make you a smarter luthier )I forgot to mention earlier : make friends with the best instrument repairman you can find, though any means possible. Sometimes the best are so beset with requests for tutoring or help that you'll really need to prove yourself, but it can be very worth it. |
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