Official Luthiers Forum!

Hello,

Has anyone seen or produced a set of standardized plans or specifications for a baritone guitar?

I have seen several different variations of this instrument including scale, body size, bridge size, string type, etc... However, I have never seen anything properly laid out.

Now I realize using the term "properly" may cause some consternation to a few folks, as there is really never just one way to build an instrument, I'm just looking for some solid guidence.

Thanks,

Ray

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Guitar Building = Continuous Improvement Process

Well I will chime in ..

There is no such thing as a Std baritone, so, I guess you wont find a std set of plans. Baritones have basically been created by makers to fill a void .. as such, each has his/her own ideas as to what they need to be to accomplish the tonal goals.

other may disagree, but here are some guidelines that I tend to follow:

Body size - big ... jumbo, 16.5 to 17 lower bout, 20 plus long. I make mine 16 5/8 on my Solo platform these days. Why, because low frequencies with any kind of volume dont get generated in small boxes all that well.

scales - up for debate here, but I like 28 to 28.5. Longer is OK, but the stretches get wide. I built a 29, and it didnt sound any better in A-A tuning than a 28 ro a 28.5, so I stopped doing it. i am also using a 14 fret neck, and either 1 3/4 or 1 13/16 at the nut. you will also most likely need to drill out the bottom tuner (at least I do on Gotoh 510s) as the 66 or 70 wont fit thru it.

bracing - I use a 90 degree X - any bigger splay and you will need an even wider bridge to cathc the X with the bridge wings. as it is, i end up around 6 3/4 to 7 inches wide here. i also like to use a 3/16 saddle, to help dial in the slightly greater swing in the intonation positions.

strings - depends on how you want to tune it, seeing as again, there is no std !!!! Right now on my new multiscale 28 5/8 to 27 1/2, I am using the Pearse open F set (15-62 I think) - I tune it in C-C and it works well. At B-B or lower, you will likely need bigger gauges - the low 62 is about as loose as you would want it - starts getting floppy. Now that said, Tony McManus played one of my 28.5 baritones a few weeks back at a couple shows with this set but the low string was subbed to a .066 - he had it tuned in DADGAD intervals, but starting in A - it sounded very good just into a mic. He has great touch though too !!! you can also check out the Daddario baritone set, EXP 23 - but it has a low B at .070, and its a double wound string - it has a different tone than the other wounds, not as much zing off the attack. I am finding that personally I like the sound of a non coated 66 as a bottom string. I am about to get some custom gauged sets made up of singles at just strings.

There are other builders/players who do this - take a set of mediums, throw away the top E, move everything up, and add the low gauge as desired. You just need to make a different saddle for this, as the 2nd string wont go back as normal(its wound now right !!)- only the top one will.

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Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

Ray, I'm currently finishing my first baritone. I had to make up many different plans to see what I liked best for soundhole and bridge positions. I tried many scale sizes, from 27-30. I also tried playing around with a 14th or 15 fret joint at the body. I also considered what kind of case I wanted to use. I wanted to make sure the baritone would fit in a standard case.

Like Tony said, you 'll also have to take the X into consideration.

So, when all was said and done, I wound up with a 29 inch scale 14 fretter. The bridge is sitting pretty low, much like a 12 fretter would on a standard guitar. The lower bout is 16.250 and the depth tapers from 5-4 inches... On the next, I'll try the same layout but with a slightly shorter scale. Width at the nut is 1 27/32.

I always load my guitars with John Pearse Phosphor Bronze Mediums, so I've decided to go the 'buy an extra .066' route. They're quite impressive to look at, these down-rigger cables... I haven't checked if I'll need to drill out the bigE tunner hole, but I'm using Waverleys.

Hope this helps,

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I'd like to be able to prove, just for once, that money wouldn't make me happy...

Ray, I'm currently finishing my first baritone. I had to make up many different plans to see what I liked best for soundhole and bridge positions. I tried many scale sizes, from 27-30. I also tried playing around with a 14th or 15 fret joint at the body. I also considered what kind of case I wanted to use. I wanted to make sure the baritone would fit in a standard case.

Like Tony said, you 'll also have to take the X into consideration.

So, when all was said and done, I wound up with a 29 inch scale 14 fretter. The bridge is sitting pretty low, much like a 12 fretter would on a standard guitar. The lower bout is 16.250 and the depth tapers from 5-4 inches... On the next, I'll try the same layout but with a slightly shorter scale. Width at the nut is 1 27/32.

I always load my guitars with John Pearse Phosphor Bronze Mediums, so I've decided to go the 'buy an extra .066' route. They're quite impressive to look at, these down-rigger cables... I haven't checked if I'll need to drill out the bigE tunner hole, but I'm using Waverleys.

Hope this helps,

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I'd like to be able to prove, just for once, that money wouldn't make me happy...

Are you also making the body with a bigger "depth" ? I would think it would need a deeper depth of the box to generate a wider low end ! just a thought ? am I wrong in this ?

I have played a few Baritones, but all I´ve tried so far didn´t sound so "much" they all had a nice tone, but the projection was small. therefor I was thinking that a larger depth would help. but I have no clue. This is a interesting thread !

Lars.

Alain brought up something I considered way back on my first, but had forgotten - I made the scale decision based upon how long a neck I could get into a std size jumbo case with a 14 fret neck. 29 was about the limit.

For an interesting aside, the bridge position for a 12 fret 25.4 scale guitar is pretty much exactly where a 14 fret 28.5 scale guitar would land .... how is that - well, add two frets beyond the nut onto a 12 fret 25.4 and you get about 28.5, and a 14 fret neck. So, in actuality, the layout plans for a 12 fret 25.4 will work pretty well on a 14 fret 28.5. You may need to beef the bracing and top thickness a touch.

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Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

I have built a few baritones. I think the most important consideration is where you want to tune it. If you're making a guitar tuned A to A you will need a much longer scale length than one tuned B to B. I have been successful with 28.5 - 29" scales for B to B, but I wouldn't go lower than 30" for an A to A instrument. If I tune my 28.5" to A the tone just falls off a cliff.

Thank you for all the great insight into Baritone construction! Great Info!!

I have a tracing for a Gibson 185 that I feel will fit the bill with a few modifications.

Thank You again for the information.

Ray

_________________
Guitar Building = Continuous Improvement Process