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The cost of building a guitar
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Author:  Paul Burner [ Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:55 am ]
Post subject:  The cost of building a guitar
I'm a relative newbie to building - and we (son and I) are starting work on guitar #4. A friend said, "So, how much does it cost to build a guitar?" He didn't ask because he wanted to buy one - he was just curious.

I had a rough idea, but I decided to sit down with Excel and start writing everything down - padding items a little for shipping charges. Take a look at this list knowing that I don't have any resaw capabilities and would be purchasing everything from places like StewMac, LMI, Bob C, Allied Lutherie, etc.

I'm posting this to see if you think any of the prices I've come up with are out of line or if I've missed anything.

Top Wood $75
Back & Sides $100 (for EIR) and up
Brace Stock for top and back $20
Kerfed Lining $20
Binding (wood - body only) $25
Purfling $15 (including rosette)
Heel Block $10
Bridge Plate $5
Bridge (Ebony) $20 (precut by CNC and customized by me)
Bridge Pins $10
Neck (including neck block & truss rod) $140 for 5-piece from Hanalei-Moon)
Headstock Veneer Overlay (Ebony or other) $10
Headstock Logo Inlay $20
Fingerboard $45
Fretwire $10
Tuners $50 - $90
Rosette Materials (Wood, Abalone, Mother of Pearl) $25 and up
End Pin to match brige pins (wood) $5
Saddle (bone) $10
Nut (bone) $10
Polyester Finish by JW $400 (with shipping)
Consumables (sandpaper, glue, beer, etc.) $50 (my guess is not near enough if beer is included)

Total: $1,075

For some reason that makes me say "Yowzer"!
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Mon Dec 22, 2008 1:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The cost of building a guitar
Hardshell case.
Author:  Rod True [ Mon Dec 22, 2008 1:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The cost of building a guitar
This really all depends on what you want to build (as far as back and sides and top are concerned) And how much labor you want to do yourself.
Top Wood $75 you could spend alot less, like $40 and still get a decent top
Back & Sides $100 (for EIR) and up same here, I have some awesome sapele from Bob C that was $35 per set
Brace Stock for top and back $20 might be a bit high, $15 could get you there.
Kerfed Lining $20 can make your own for much less (minus the labor costs of course)
Binding (wood - body only) $25 off cuts from the side wood cost nothing.
Purfling $15 (including rosette)
Heel Block $10 I use 5/8" baltic birch laminated together (along with the tail block), costs about $60 a sheet, can make about 350 blocks which can render enough head and tail blocks for 115 guitar. Pretty cheap.
Bridge Plate $5 can be off cut from the EIR back piece.
Bridge (Ebony) $20 (precut by CNC and customized by me) Now that's pretty inexpensive, save that one.
Bridge Pins $10 Grizzly sells ebony bridge pins with matching end pin for $5
Neck (including neck block & truss rod) $140 for 5-piece from Hanalei-Moon) this is pretty pricey I think. You can buy sapele for about $4.50/bf which requires less than 2 bf for a neck with stacked heel and scarf joint headstock.
Headstock Veneer Overlay (Ebony or other) $10 can also use off cuts from the back wood. Just use material in the waist area and book match them.
Headstock Logo Inlay $20 Depends on if you cut yourself or buy pre-cut.
Fingerboard $45 I just bought a BRW fret board blank from Colonial at $30. I'm sure ebony or EIR is much less than that.
Fretwire $10
Tuners $50 - $90 Could be less, you can be decent gotoh tuners for around $35
Rosette Materials (Wood, Abalone, Mother of Pearl) $25 and up again can be off cuts from other wood, make an all wood tile rosette could cost nothing.
End Pin to match brige pins (wood) $5 see above.
Saddle (bone) $10 less than $3 from allied
Nut (bone) $10 same as above
Polyester Finish by JW $400 (with shipping) arguably the best spent money on making a guitar but of course this is arguably the most waisted money on making a guitar too. Learn to fp and the cost goes down to $50 for materials (and this could be quite high)
Consumables (sandpaper, glue, beer, etc.) $50 (my guess is not near enough if beer is included) Well, honestly, this one even minus the beer is low. I would say min $100, not including beer. Add another $100 for beer :D

It can be done for much less than that $1000 for materials. I sell to friends and family for $800 canadian, that's generally what my costs are, depending on materials of course.
Author:  peterm [ Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The cost of building a guitar
Rod True wrote:
I sell to friends and family for $800 canadian, that's generally what my costs are, depending on materials of course.


Hey, I'm your friend aren't I?? bliss


I think one can build a guitar for a lot less than $1000 if real sub-par woods (either tonally or visually) were used along with other cheap materials. Heck, the Chinese make them for less than $100 including finish and shipping to the USA!
Author:  martinedwards [ Mon Dec 22, 2008 4:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The cost of building a guitar
you haven't factored in the cost of tools, wear & tear on them, and of course breaking a side when you're bending!!

The last acoustic guitar I built used salvaged wood. Back, sides, neck & tail blocks, binding & linings came from a dumpster. the bridge was cut from a scrap coffee table.

fretboard, Top, pins frets & tuners came from Stewmac or Ebay.

total cost (inc electrics & a hard case) under $300

Image
Author:  Hesh [ Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The cost of building a guitar
That's the thing isn't it.... I think that you all are correct for your individual situations. And we have been to this movie before too where we discuss what it costs to build a guitar.

It's different for everyone and if you noticed Paul did not include some other costs that to me are required too.

For example, as I sit here with the temp outside at 2 degrees and 25 mph winds with a foot of snow on the ground - humidification/dehumidification for a controlled area where you build.

Tools? I'll say that one again because it never ends..... tools...... :D We have jigs, radius dishes, laminate trimmers, chisels, and on and on.

Sure someone is going to be able to build a guitar for $2..... But someone else, like me who had nothing that is required may need to drop $3K to build a guitar.

And Howard's right too - what about a case?

Paul for the style that you intend to build with, outsourcing the finish, commercial neck, not cutting up your furniture for materials..... :D, and based on your own level of beer consumption I think that your estimate is gotta be pretty close.
Author:  Paul Burner [ Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The cost of building a guitar
Rod - and all. I really appreciate the comments. Keep bringing them. I've posted some more "reasons" for some of my prices below.

Top Wood $75 you could spend alot less, like $40 and still get a decent top
Yes - I probably could get a "decent" top for $40 - but I want a quality top - the only one's I've seen around $40 have some type of cosmetic flaw. Correct?

Binding (wood - body only) $25 off cuts from the side wood cost nothing.
I guess I could start keeping cut offs - but since I'm new, I don't have any inventory of binding and will need to purchase what I need for a while.

Neck (including neck block & truss rod) $140 for 5-piece from Hanalei-Moon) this is pretty pricey I think. You can buy sapele for about $4.50/bf which requires less than 2 bf for a neck with stacked heel and scarf joint headstock.
As a new builder, I am tackling one project at a time - and right now building a neck is beyond my skill set. I'm sure I'll get there someday, but for now I need to purchase a neck pre-shaped. The price and quality of the Hanalei-Moon necks look great. We just received our first one from Chris and it is amazing.

Fingerboard $45 I just bought a BRW fret board blank from Colonial at $30. I'm sure ebony or EIR is much less than that.
I currently don't have the tools or the expertise to cut the fret slots - so a precut neck is my only way to go - thus the price on this one.

Polyester Finish by JW $400 (with shipping) arguably the best spent money on making a guitar but of course this is arguably the most waisted money on making a guitar too. Learn to fp and the cost goes down to $50 for materials (and this could be quite high)
I agree that this is one of the highest cost items in the build - but based on the work Joe did on our previous 2 guitars, it is a cost I would like to just include. I've seen great craftsmanship ruined by a bad finish job - and I want the finish to be something that makes people say "WOW" - and Joe does that kind of work.

Hesh - I agree on the tool comments. The GREAT news is that I've got almost all this big items I need with the delivery of a recent purchase today. I was able to get a really good deal on a barely used Performax 16-32 drum sander and Jet dust collector via Craigslist. It was out in Colorado, but my son just happened to be driving within 8 miles of the guys home on a snowboarding trip this past weekend. He picked it up last night for me and will bring it over tonight when we swap vehicles. I'm PUMPED!!! I'll post photos later.
Author:  TonyKarol [ Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The cost of building a guitar
I would agree that 75 for a quaility top is high. You can easiliy get AAA tops for about 40-50, even lutz from Shane for that. With the exception of good Adi (AAA and master) and some bearclaw, I dont think I have spent more than 55 for any of the tops I have used - most are in the 40-50 range, and thats for very good tops.

25 for binding is way high - most places have something for less than 2 bucks a strip. Thats 8 bucks.

back and sides - there is lots of mahogany and lookalikes available for 50 bucks.

I think the issue is how close are you to a place that can supply most everything you need, for the prices stated - shipping may kill you to save 20 bucks on a top for instance. I am lucky to live within 45 minute drive to 2 of Canadas best hardwood suppliers - the ability to look thru a stack and find the piece you want is the best. As well, its sometimes amazing what they throw out - scraps can get you block material, rosette stock, headplates - once I got a stack of some unknown veneer with flame in it - made lovely purf lines, and could be used as accents in neck lams, or rosettes, whatever ....

I never really priced out exactly every piece, but my guess was around 4-500 bucks for everything, including a cheaper hardshell case.
Author:  Paul Burner [ Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The cost of building a guitar
TonyKarol wrote:
I think the issue is how close are you to a place that can supply most everything you need, for the prices stated - shipping may kill you to save 20 bucks on a top for instance.


Tony,

Thanks for the input. Lincoln Nebraska is not the hotbed of guitar building and any supplies I need are a LONG ship to nowhere.

The costs to ship do add up significantly.
Author:  Tai Fu [ Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The cost of building a guitar
Cost of materials for me is around 4-500 dollars that includes shipping to Taiwan and customs charge. LMI charges more for shipping than Stewmac for some reason and I pay about $100 for shipping so I try to get everything in one order if I could to save on that. Finding scrap wood or quality wood in Taiwan has been an exercise in futility since it seems the only wood available here are either some kind of cypress or this thing called "lauan" which is used for all kinds of construction. They are really soft and fragile and I heard that those are actually rainforest wood or something... I would like to be able to resaw my own back and side but I think assuming I could find lumber (which is next to impossible) it would probably not be usable and I still need to buy top and braces too since no one sells any of those woods here.

I guess side cutoffs work but then you would have to have built several guitars and remember to save the cutoffs before building since you really wouldn't use the same kind of wood binding as your side anyways. 25 on binding seems a lot unless you're using curly koa binding...
Author:  Terence Kennedy [ Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The cost of building a guitar
For a Rosewood guitar I'm around $600 if I do the finish and $1000 farming it out to Addam Stark. A little cheaper with Mahogany. That's with top grade materials, Waverleys, and a TKL Professional case. Check out Walter Lipton at Euphonon as another alternative for outstanding tonewoods at a reasonable price. When I first started dealing with him 5 or 6 years ago he asked me how many instruments I'd made. I think it was around 6 or 7 then. He said " I can't give you the good stuff yet". He feels strongly that you should use lower grades until you have build more. Might as well dive in and try a neck from scratch too, nothing to loose, save a few $$$ and it's fun.
Good Luck
Terry
Author:  Rod True [ Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The cost of building a guitar
Fretwank Guitars wrote:
I guess side cutoffs work but then you would have to have built several guitars and remember to save the cutoffs before building since you really wouldn't use the same kind of wood binding as your side anyways...


Why not? Some of the nicest and most classy looking guitars I've ever seen have the same binding as side and back wood and if you can label them using the offcuts for the same sides is the best as they have the same coloring and grain lines often. A small contrasting purflling line makes all the difference.

Neck making is one of the most enjoyable parts of building, don't be afraid of it Paul, that's where a lot of creativity can be.
Author:  Lillian F-W [ Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The cost of building a guitar
Hesh did this on one of his guitars and coined the phrase "stealth binding". The guitar was beautiful in an understated, British sort of way. It doesn't always have to have bling. Some times less is more.
Author:  phil [ Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The cost of building a guitar
paul,

like many of the other posts, i think there are a lot of ways to cut costs off of your estimate.

make the neck yourself. buy local for heel and tail blocks. pay $30 for a top (from our suppliers, the difference is purely cosmetic - not sonic. and a some guitar players don't even mind if wood looks like wood). cut the head plate and bridge plate from the eir back cutoffs. saddle and nut and bridge blank should each be $5 or less. don't buy expensive tuners until someone pays you to put on expensive tuners.

using abalone, a premade neck, cnc'ed bridge and a "master grade" top are all expensive and will not be more important than your craftsmanship and aesthetic choices.

i'm just farming out my first finish so i'm one to talk, but the previous 8 instruments got finished for about $4 zpoxy and $7 truoil each. there's a handy way to cut your costs.

the biggest challenge you'll face in cutting down costs is likely the pressure that other builders and retailers add by hyping things like "master grade" wood.

just my thoughts.

phil
Author:  Hesh [ Mon Dec 22, 2008 3:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The cost of building a guitar
One of my Luthier heroes, Howard, once said on the OLF something like use the best wood you can - after all it does grow on trees.......... laughing6-hehe :D
Author:  Allen McFarlen [ Mon Dec 22, 2008 3:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The cost of building a guitar
My first guitar probably cost around the $1,000 AU mark. That was far too much in my opinion if I wanted to continue building, so I had to start thinking about where the costs were, and how to limit them.

Living in a place where it's quite difficult, to darn right impossible to find anything at all locally, everything has to be shipped, usually overseas, and the shipping can very quickly get right out of hand. Also the exchange rate takes a big bight out of the wallet.

So, I and other builders in Australia put group buys together to get the best pricing we possibly can on volume purchase and split the shipping between us. Get together with a few other blokes to purchase in larger lots and split them up between you. Even buy strings in bulk. You'll go through quite a few sets while setting up instruments if you plan on building on a regular basis.

Use off cuts from sides and backs for trim. Keep an eye open for interesting bits of wood in your travels. Heaps of possibilities for rosettes, head plates, bindings.

I hate the term "Master Grade" and flat out refuse to purchase anything marketed as such. Too much money for something that to my eye is just vanilla looking. It even gets my back up when I hear people describing the instrument they built with these terms.

I've got a stack of down graded tops simply because they have a blemish near the perimeter. Each and every one of them can be used so that the blemish is not included in the top, or is lost in purfling / binding. These were cheap as at $20 AU each and are essentially AAA grade once the blemish is cut off.

Learn to make a neck. It's not hard.

Learn to make a fret board. This is even easier.

Learn to apply a finish. Heaps of tutorials out there, and it's dead easy as well. By skipping these steps and farming them out, you're paying someone else to do the most enjoyable parts of the building process.

I now can easily build a guitar for under $300 AU not including case. At todays exchange rate that's $200 US
Author:  Zach Ehley [ Mon Dec 22, 2008 5:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The cost of building a guitar
Steve just did a small body guitar for a friend that cost $161. I think he got the HOG for the B+S and neck from Menards. It looks really good for under $200.

viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=19914&hilit=puck
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Mon Dec 22, 2008 6:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The cost of building a guitar
Depends what wood you want.
https://www.martinguitar.com/1833/catal ... 26%20Tools
Add for glue and finishing.
Author:  Tai Fu [ Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The cost of building a guitar
Alternatively, you can buy Martin necks off of ebay for about $25 and while they need some work to make it fit, it's easier than starting from a plank of wood if you're not up to it. I decided to make my own neck on the second build though... It's less work for me than trying to fit a truss rod into a slot that isn't designed for it... I just don't understand why they charge $150 for a neck without a fretboard attached to it... Warmoth makes a strat neck for only a little more and they are complete fretted and everything.
Author:  ChuckH [ Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The cost of building a guitar
Chris Paulick wrote:
Depends what wood you want.
https://www.martinguitar.com/1833/catal ... 26%20Tools
Add for glue and finishing.




Don't forget strings too. I think they got the finish quoted in at 400 bucks.
Author:  CWLiu [ Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The cost of building a guitar
Fretwank Guitars wrote:
Finding scrap wood or quality wood in Taiwan has been an exercise in futility since it seems the only wood available here are either some kind of cypress or this thing called "lauan" which is used for all kinds of construction.

There's a guitar plywood factory in Taiwan. They slice their own veneers so you can buy their scrap at low prices. They have Indonesian RW, sapele, mahogany, sycamore, pau ferro, sitka spruce, Canadian cypress, WRC... etc.
仁友企業

The bridge blanks I cut from their sonokeling(Indonesian RW) offcut boards cost about $.1 each.
Author:  douglas ingram [ Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The cost of building a guitar
Wow, I must be really cheap and miserly. I get a lot of my tone wood as culls from my regular woodworking activities. I cull out the best and put it aside for lutherie. I often don't think of it as having a cost as I don't go and "buy" it specifically for guitar making. I should, one of these days, actually buy some nice tonewood...

Anyways, the only real purchases that I make are the tuning machines and fretwire, and even that seems expensive to my cost monitoring wife. idunno
Author:  Frank Cousins [ Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The cost of building a guitar
Paul Burner wrote:
Rod - and all. I really appreciate the comments. Keep bringing them. I've posted some more "reasons" for some of my prices below.

Top Wood $75 you could spend alot less, like $40 and still get a decent top
Yes - I probably could get a "decent" top for $40 - but I want a quality top - the only one's I've seen around $40 have some type of cosmetic flaw. Correct?

Binding (wood - body only) $25 off cuts from the side wood cost nothing.
I guess I could start keeping cut offs - but since I'm new, I don't have any inventory of binding and will need to purchase what I need for a while.

Neck (including neck block & truss rod) $140 for 5-piece from Hanalei-Moon) this is pretty pricey I think. You can buy sapele for about $4.50/bf which requires less than 2 bf for a neck with stacked heel and scarf joint headstock.
As a new builder, I am tackling one project at a time - and right now building a neck is beyond my skill set. I'm sure I'll get there someday, but for now I need to purchase a neck pre-shaped. The price and quality of the Hanalei-Moon necks look great. We just received our first one from Chris and it is amazing.

Fingerboard $45 I just bought a BRW fret board blank from Colonial at $30. I'm sure ebony or EIR is much less than that.
I currently don't have the tools or the expertise to cut the fret slots - so a precut neck is my only way to go - thus the price on this one.

Polyester Finish by JW $400 (with shipping) arguably the best spent money on making a guitar but of course this is arguably the most waisted money on making a guitar too. Learn to fp and the cost goes down to $50 for materials (and this could be quite high)
I agree that this is one of the highest cost items in the build - but based on the work Joe did on our previous 2 guitars, it is a cost I would like to just include. I've seen great craftsmanship ruined by a bad finish job - and I want the finish to be something that makes people say "WOW" - and Joe does that kind of work.

Hesh - I agree on the tool comments. The GREAT news is that I've got almost all this big items I need with the delivery of a recent purchase today. I was able to get a really good deal on a barely used Performax 16-32 drum sander and Jet dust collector via Craigslist. It was out in Colorado, but my son just happened to be driving within 8 miles of the guys home on a snowboarding trip this past weekend. He picked it up last night for me and will bring it over tonight when we swap vehicles. I'm PUMPED!!! I'll post photos later.


PaulIwould have a go at the neck - its not as difficult as it looks, and I actually thought it was easier than bind the top! I have only built one guitar and now on number two, but the amount you learn from a first build is huge and already the second is so much easier - not getting cocky - but I think you learn so much from immersing yourself in it all, that improvemnet comes quite rapidly in the early guitars - I think it when you majke the step from good to exceptionla that the improvements slow down and its experience and skills that take you there.... go on make your own neck - wont cost you more than about £25 ($40) and the sskills learnt and experience gained is priceless.
Author:  JSDenvir [ Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The cost of building a guitar
TonyKarol wrote:
... I am lucky to live within 45 minute drive to 2 of Canadas best hardwood suppliers ...


Hey Tony, that would be Exotic Woods in Burlington and ...?

Thanks in advance

Steve
Author:  stan thomison [ Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The cost of building a guitar
I don't keep track. I might get depressed if I did. That said, I spent a ton on what I did this year, not a dime back in renumeration. Even though sold some, it all went back to the freebies and shop. Not a good business plan. Knew that going in though and my folks I do for make it worth it.
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