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Some advice needed on EIR.
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=20024		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Lars Stahl [ Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Some advice needed on EIR.
Hi guys. I am not sure you remember I got some wood directly from india. I "wagner" planed it and then hand planed/sanded it and then I saw a small crack in the end of one of the back plates " 5cm" about. ! I put some glue on the crack and clampt it, but is there a way to prevent this from happening, they come waxed etc, was it dumb to sand it to thickness now ! as I am not gonna use it for a few months ? I did it to make it dry faster ! Also I know dimentions are different from back to back, but I am now at .120 and there are a few marks from the resawing from India still on one side! how do I know when I am done sanding the back ? just on feel ? like sanding the top ? tapping ?.

So in short, thickness and crack. hmm duh :D


PS. I got my first injury ! as I was working the Wagner-"safe"-t-planer :D , I accidently put my finger under the planer :shock: and it cut the nail and fingertip in 2 :D didn´t feel a thing, hmm, but now I have to stay away from playing guitar for a week or so. darn. haha

Lars
Author:  ChuckH [ Sat Dec 13, 2008 11:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some advice needed on EIR.
Hi Lars,
Sorry to hear about your crack and your finger. Every instrument I've worked on I have some of my blood on it somewhere. Usually I cut my thumb with the chisel or gouge. I'm beginning to think it's another way of signing the top. With your DNA

Be safe bro
Author:  Rod True [ Sat Dec 13, 2008 11:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some advice needed on EIR.
Hi Lars,

Ya............it would have been best to just leave that EIR for several months, letting it loose moisture all on it's own. Mind you that crack may have been there already. Hopefully you can just shift the profile up to get it outside of the crack. That crack may be hard to repair as end cracks are usually the sign that the board has lost more moisture at the end versus the middle area (if that makes sense). That's why the ends are usually waxed (but I think you know this). To allow the moisture change to happen in the middle of the board to help eliminate end cracking. So, you may not be able to close up that crack very well, but you could add a sliver to close up any gap. EIR hides stuff like that really well, especially along the grain lines. Should fix pretty easily.

On the thickness, I think most folks thickness their backs from 0.090-0.110" depending on species and stiffness. I think you could probably get away with going down to 0.100 or less, but make sure you join the pieces first before taking any more material off. It can be difficult to get the two pieces totally flush along the entire seam (I find anyway), and if you're at or very near your final thickness before joining the plates, you are pretty much forced to going thinner just to flush up the two halves.

Sorry to hear you got nailed (bad joke I know). Nothing is safe when spinning at 2000+ RPM.
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Some advice needed on EIR.
Lars that isn't funny.

I suggest not trying to save money by getting wood directly from India. They seem to be clueless there about the difference between green and dry wood. Everyone I know who has bought direct from India has lost a lot to degrading while drying.
Author:  Lars Stahl [ Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Some advice needed on EIR.
Thanks ! . Chuck, Good Idea "the DNA" signature hahahaha.

Rod! great info !! thanks alot. I am not sure I can add a sliver, the crack is not "visable", only as you bend the wood some you see it !. so I did that and put some glue on the small gap that then apeared. hope it stays closed. mostly afraid there will be more cracks "if there is one there may be many" ??

Howard, the wood looks really nice though, but I agree that it was more work to get it here than to simply get it from one of our friends etc.
Although ! that did not help me much in my questioning :D .

Lars
Author:  Hesh [ Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Some advice needed on EIR.
For the life of me I don't know why the Wagner "Safe-T-planer" is described as an entirely safe tool to use because it is most certainly not. Early on my power planer sent a bridge blank airborne right into my mouth..... I had a fat lip for several days which was no biggie since I am the quiet type who never says much...........

What Howard said about being cautious about green wood from India. This is why I always purchased my zoot from our uber reliable OLF sponsors instead.

Another thought that occurred to me is that I like to join my plates at around .140 and then thickness to near final thickness as a joined back or top. Did you join the plates first? If not yours are getting pretty thin, although it's not impossible, to join and still have enough material left to level the joint completely.
Author:  JJ Donohue [ Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Some advice needed on EIR.
Howard Klepper wrote:
Lars that isn't funny.

I suggest not trying to save money by getting wood directly from India. They seem to be clueless there about the difference between green and dry wood. Everyone I know who has bought direct from India has lost a lot to degrading while drying.


Howard...put me in the category of loving to get wood directly from India. What is the nature of the degradation to which you refer and how can one recognize wood that might be prone to such degradation?

About 5 years ago, we did an OLF group buy of hundreds of sets from Gopal. (Thank you Bruce Dickey!) When I received my 15 sets directly off the boat from India they were in fact wet. I stickered them per normal practice and there has been no deterioration over the years that it has been on my shelf. The savings were SIGNIFICANT and I would not hesitate to do such a deal again. Also, I'm not aware of any of the others having seen any degradation either. These sets were roughly sawn to about .140" and had a whitish appearance on the surface of some sets, but it came off rather easily. All of my sets have subsequently been surface sanded and look and perform as expected.

Lars...I experienced a similar "attack" from the Wagner. In my case, however, it went a bit farther than the nail and I didn't play guitar for months. Now, fully recovered, I have a much deeper respect for the tool. More importantly, I reesolved never to work after midnight!
Author:  Lars Stahl [ Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Some advice needed on EIR.
Its good to know I am not along in the Safe-T world of injuries !! :lol: :lol: . Its easy to get carried away, and feel like - Just this last one before I go to bed etc and thats what I did accutally. ! haha.
The wagner is pretty scary to use, when you take really thin layers off, it almost "grab" the wood, so one has to be really carefull to hold it steady and be ready for it to grab, if not I can really see how it can be like a projectile, and through the wood away, just like as it did on you Hesh. sorry to hear it, as go for you JJ. glad to hear your both ok though !. :D

This EIR I have,"1 set" looks great, not "green". As I got it, it was grayish on the surface just like yours JJ but after sanding it, it looks really dark brown, almost black in the middle.

One thing though, I REALLY want a drumsander !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. its sooo much work to sand this by hand, when I use my 4" stanley planer, I get tearoffs so I am afraid of using it on the EIR. So I mainly plane by hand and handmachine. suggestions needed here to !. I hope I will have time to put my homemade drumsander soon. I can easy see how a drumsander can be the most used machine in a shop. !!!! would taske houers off the sanding. for softwoods though, I really like feeling of using the hands. I am sooo addicted to this now, you all told me a while back this could be addicting ! you were right !! . tomorrow I am hoping to recieve some wood and extras on the mail, so I can get my rosette made. I also have made my own design of headstock and a logo to put on it. Cant wait to see how it turns out. ! I´ll post some photos as I get further on the build ! .

Lars
Author:  Frei [ Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some advice needed on EIR.
Lars, you gotta watch out man, I hope you saw my post on a Safe-ty planer dust collector.

I did the same thing, only with a hand plane upside down to my fingernail. I had to take the entire nail down about 3 /16ths so it would grow evenly back. gaah

Its not just power tools ya gotta look out for!
Author:  Lars Stahl [ Mon Dec 15, 2008 8:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Some advice needed on EIR.
Man, I got chills through my entire body hearing that. that is freaky. Its soo easy to make a mistake, but once there, you get more and more, careful. just like a cow not going to close to the electric fence hahaha :D

Thank you all for the help.

Lars
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