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Why does the End Graft large end point towards the top?
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Author:  ChuckH [ Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:23 am ]
Post subject:  Why does the End Graft large end point towards the top?
I've always wondered why the the widest part of the end graft points towards to the top of the guitar. This has always seemed backward to me. It really doesn't matter which way it is positioned does it? I know there are different shapes as some are just straight, some are curved, but why do the trapezoid shape end graft point the way it do? Any history behind it?

Of course the reason I ask is that I just cut it out wrong. So, with another mistake of not paying attention AGAIN......... [headinwall]

I'm just going to glue this puppy in. I swear, when I work on guitars I need to take that medicine for Attention Deficit Disorder, what's it called....Ritalin?
Author:  JJ Donohue [ Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why does the End Graft large end point towards the top?
Tradition...
Author:  Pat Foster [ Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why does the End Graft large end point towards the top?
If it seems backward to you with the big end up, then you did right!

I thought the same thing about the grain on my sides on a recent build. It curves up a little bit, toward the top on either side. Looking back, I would have done it the other way. Next time.

Pat
Author:  jfrench [ Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why does the End Graft large end point towards the top?
I prefer the wedge to narrow towards the soundboard, so I'm with you.

If I were you and I did it "wrong" - I'd leave it. I'd be pretty surprised if someone noticed and comments on it.
Author:  Laurent Brondel [ Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why does the End Graft large end point towards the top?
I did only one guitar like this, and I like it. I would consider it a design feature…
Author:  Wade Sylvester [ Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why does the End Graft large end point towards the top?
Chuck,
I’d say go for it!
If someone asks you about it, tell them you thought you would be bold, experimental and controversial and break with tradition. :roll:
:D

Wade

BTW nice one Laurent!
Author:  Darrin D Oilar [ Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why does the End Graft large end point towards the top?
I can't answer the why. I can't even recall which direction mine went in, now that I think about it. idunno

I would say that looking at that picture with the small end toward the soundboard it gives me the feeling of minimalizing the end to which the small portion points. I don't know...maybe it's like artistic perpective thing...you know when you draw a road or railroad tracks and the small end seems so far away. Just the feeling I get from that picture. I don't know if I would feel the same way with the guitar in my hands (especially that one, it's a beauty).

If it's tradition, then another tradition with guitars seems to be to try new things. Seeing as it's a design choice, and does not affect the tone, go for it. See if people like it. :D

Darrin
Author:  Hesh [ Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why does the End Graft large end point towards the top?
So when a drummer picks up your guitar they won't scratch up the back playing it with a pick.
Author:  Rod True [ Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why does the End Graft large end point towards the top?
They're suppose to be tapered?????

Attachment:
Maple Guitar - nearly finished 004.jpg
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why does the End Graft large end point towards the top?
OK, here's my hypothesis: it's not for nothing that we call this the "butt wedge." You with me so far? It represents human butt cleavage. Now think about the kind of butt that has wider cleavage on the bottom. Lots of overweight, middle-age spread. On the other hand, how does the cleavage run on a cute, perky butt? See what I mean?
Author:  Jeremy Douglas [ Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why does the End Graft large end point towards the top?
Howard Klepper wrote:
OK, here's my hypothesis: it's not for nothing that we call this the "butt wedge." You with me so far? It represents human butt cleavage. Now think about the kind of butt that has wider cleavage on the bottom. Lots of overweight, middle-age spread. On the other hand, how does the cleavage run on a cute, perky butt? See what I mean?


eek That was disturbing.
Author:  Bob Garrish [ Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why does the End Graft large end point towards the top?
Howard Klepper wrote:
OK, here's my hypothesis: it's not for nothing that we call this the "butt wedge." You with me so far? It represents human butt cleavage. Now think about the kind of butt that has wider cleavage on the bottom. Lots of overweight, middle-age spread. On the other hand, how does the cleavage run on a cute, perky butt? See what I mean?


Wow.
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why does the End Graft large end point towards the top?
When I use a large secondary or ortimental wood wedge in the back seam of a back (3 piece back) I always place the large end of the wedge towards the tail. and match that width with a wedge end graft tapering towards the top. the the design looks planed. if you place an end graft wedge reversed on a guitar without a feature that ties the wide part in some way to the back then most will see it as a mistake simply because the artistic conseption wants the width at the top. it on the other hand you have somthing that ties the width to the back the eye sees it as pland progression and it makes sense to the minds eye
Author:  TonyKarol [ Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why does the End Graft large end point towards the top?
when building a guitar, I always ask my students about guitars they have at home .. what is the tail wedge made from ?? most have no idea .. they never look ... most people, except makers, dont know, and dont even care. I follow the martin style of top wide, bottom narrow ...... anything else is the anti-Martin. :twisted:
Author:  Alan Carruth [ Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why does the End Graft large end point towards the top?
I've always thought it was because the back center joint is usually more visible than the one on the top. You sort of have to line the graft up with the back joint, particularly if it's got an inlaid center stripe. If the top seam doesn't line up exactly it's not as visible, but making the graft wider toward the top makes it even less so. With the angled sides you can even tilt the end graft a tiny bit to make the center seams look more aligned. With a parallel sides end graft, such as is normal on classical guitars, you can't get away with as much.
Author:  Laurent Brondel [ Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why does the End Graft large end point towards the top?
Howard Klepper wrote:
On the other hand, how does the cleavage run on a cute, perky butt? See what I mean?


Mitred or not?
How does the G string sound?
Author:  Flori F. [ Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why does the End Graft large end point towards the top?
Jeremy Douglas wrote:
Howard Klepper wrote:
OK, here's my hypothesis: it's not for nothing that we call this the "butt wedge." You with me so far? It represents human butt cleavage. Now think about the kind of butt that has wider cleavage on the bottom. Lots of overweight, middle-age spread. On the other hand, how does the cleavage run on a cute, perky butt? See what I mean?


eek That was disturbing.

Indeed.
Author:  ChuckH [ Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why does the End Graft large end point towards the top?
Howard Klepper wrote:
OK, here's my hypothesis: it's not for nothing that we call this the "butt wedge." You with me so far? It represents human butt cleavage. Now think about the kind of butt that has wider cleavage on the bottom. Lots of overweight, middle-age spread. On the other hand, how does the cleavage run on a cute, perky butt? See what I mean?


LOL......only you Howard would think of something like this.

If that's the case, I'm drilling two holes for my end peg.
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why does the End Graft large end point towards the top?
Alan Carruth wrote:
I've always thought it was because the back center joint is usually more visible than the one on the top. You sort of have to line the graft up with the back joint, particularly if it's got an inlaid center stripe. If the top seam doesn't line up exactly it's not as visible, but making the graft wider toward the top makes it even less so. With the angled sides you can even tilt the end graft a tiny bit to make the center seams look more aligned. With a parallel sides end graft, such as is normal on classical guitars, you can't get away with as much.


That could cut the other way: since the back alignment is more critical, make it harder to tell if it's off by putting the wide end down there. On the other hand, if you know you have it right, flaunt it.
Author:  Ricardo [ Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why does the End Graft large end point towards the top?
Cause it looks better. (IMHO).
Author:  James W B [ Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why does the End Graft large end point towards the top?
I`m with Howard.I`d rather look at a cute perky butt.
James :)
Author:  Laurent Brondel [ Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why does the End Graft large end point towards the top?
Filippo Morelli wrote:
Laurent,
Looks like Mahogany B&S ... photo saturated so it looks redish ... or?

Filippo


Bloodwood
Author:  Jody [ Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why does the End Graft large end point towards the top?
I cannot believe the turn this thread has taken , next we will be talking about sniffing wood through the sound holes ! unbelievable,, where is that moderator anyways ? Jody
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why does the End Graft large end point towards the top?
Jody wrote:
I cannot believe the turn this thread has taken , next we will be talking about sniffing wood through the sound holes ! unbelievable,, where is that moderator anyways ? Jody


Doesn't everybody sniff at the soundhole?
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why does the End Graft large end point towards the top?
I do not know the answer... but my first attempt at building had me installing the butt wedge small end towards the top. It was the straw that broke the camel's back. I gave up on that build. It just did not look right to me. I keep that body around to remind me of all the mistakes I made. It is very ugly. And that dang backward butt edge! Sorry Laurent, I just do not like that angle. But the guitar itself is gorgeous!

Mike
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