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Simple jigs for plate glue line planing?
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=19879		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Frei [ Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:21 am ]
Post subject:  Simple jigs for plate glue line planing?
I would like to see how you all hold down top and back plates.(any quick release scheems)? Does anyone drill little holes in the plates to line them back up when you put them back?
Author:  Hesh [ Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Simple jigs for plate glue line planing?
Frei buddy are you asking about how we align the plates for gluing to the rim?

If so what I do for tops is be very careful to inlet my upper transverse brace and upper X legs precisely and then I also make a mark on the center line of the top on both the butt end and the neck end. These marks are lined up with matching centerline marks on the butt wedge and on a piece of tape that I place across the neck tenon area.

For the back same deal, careful to inlet the braces precisely and things just drop into place with the marks being a just-in-case reference in case I don't have things seated properly.

If this was not what you are asking my apologies.
Author:  Frei [ Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Simple jigs for plate glue line planing?
Thanks Hesh, no, -how do you align them to plane them for jointing? Like jigs and stuff. I clamp between 2 boards with clamps but it hampers getting them out, and putting them back to use the plane to joint them...
Author:  Alexandru Marian [ Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Simple jigs for plate glue line planing?
I try to be very low tech so I just knock the edges on the bench to align them, place the plates on a neck blank and plane away. I "clamp" with the left arm leaning on them a bit. The most important part of the process is having a quality plane which is scary sharp! :) It also works because I thin them a lot before joining, to about .12 even .1 A thick and perhaps curled up rosewood plank might need some clamping which can be easily done with a couple big C's.


As for thinning, I guess the best method is to use hold-downs and dogs.
Author:  Hesh [ Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Simple jigs for plate glue line planing?
duh sorry about that......

I was doing much the same as you, clamping between two boards but adding a straight edge for the plane's sole to ride against. Since I got a bigger plane (thanks Todd!!!) I have nixed the straight edge and this #5 plane seems to be long enough to make it work.

Attachment:
DSCN2440.jpg


BTW Tracy at Luthier Suppliers has a great solution too where no plane is required.
Author:  SStallings [ Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Simple jigs for plate glue line planing?
Who is the manufacturer of your plane? Just looked at Lie Neilsen and they're a little pricey.
Author:  Alexandru Marian [ Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Simple jigs for plate glue line planing?
A cheaper but superb plane is the Veritas #5 low-angle jack, I paid 200 and a bit for it. With an extra iron, VAT, and FEDEX to Europe, 400? :D
Author:  Hesh [ Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Simple jigs for plate glue line planing?
This is an old Record #5 that Todd Stock reconditioned and replaced the blade. It works great and you have not experienced "sharp" until you try an edge tool that Todd sharpened.

Apparently there are lots of these kinds of planes available on-line and reconditioning is not that difficult although I'll let someone who has actually done it speak to that.
Author:  Frei [ Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Simple jigs for plate glue line planing?
Uhm, no no, I want quick release efficientcy. I had to keep going over my hog backs, and that won;t do.
Author:  Lillian F-W [ Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Simple jigs for plate glue line planing?
Sounds like you want to be able to register your tops to each other and then camp into place so that after you shoot the joint and you aren't satisfied you can go back to where you were and touch it up. Is that correct?
Author:  Allen McFarlen [ Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Simple jigs for plate glue line planing?
I've got a couple pieces of marble counter top material. One is used to get the plates up off of the work surface. Carefully place the 2 plates down so that just a couple of millimeters hang over, then place the other marble slab on top. This effectively clamps them good enough to shoot the line. It also holds them flat for the odd piece that has a bit of twist or bow in it.

Takes only a few minutes to get a good tight joint like this. And the best part is that the marble slabs were free as off cuts from a counter top manufacturer.
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Simple jigs for plate glue line planing?
Hers is a quick sketch, top, end and front view of my shooting board. Constructed from birch ply base and clamp bar, maple riser plate 3/4" all thread and fixture nuts. The only reason I use 3/4" all-thread is because I had two short pieces handy, 3/8" would have been plenty.

Attachment:
Shooting board.png


The 3/8 mounting pins go into pre drilled holes on a work bench to eliminate clamping to the work bench
Author:  Arnt Rian [ Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Simple jigs for plate glue line planing?
The traditional way to hold the work pieces for edge jointing is with a shooting board. A shooting board for our use can be as simple as a board with battens along two edges that act as fences or stops for the plates to be planed. The shooting board must be narrow enough so the plates overhang the edge of it. A second board, or 'runway', for the plane should be mounted under the shooting board, unless you have a very smooth table top where it will ride without bumps. The stops on the shooting board ensure that the plates return to the same position after you have checked your progress by 'candling' the edges. I simply hold the plates against the stops with one hand and plane with the other. My plane of choice is a #5 1/2 with a Hock iron and chip breaker.

<edit> Michael posted while I was typing. Mine is similar, but simpler.
Author:  SStallings [ Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Simple jigs for plate glue line planing?
Here's a dumb question that has never been clear to me: When the plane is on its side, what is the sole of the plane touching--only the plates that it is planing or is it also riding on the bottom board? I presume only the plates.

I'm a little dense.
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Simple jigs for plate glue line planing?
Michael Dale Payne wrote:
Hers is a quick sketch, top, end and front view of my shooting board. Constructed from birch ply base and clamp bar, maple riser plate 3/4" all thread and fixture nuts. The only reason I use 3/4" all-thread is because I had two short pieces handy, 3/8" would have been plenty.

Attachment:
Shooting board.png


The 3/8 mounting pins go into pre drilled holes on a work bench to eliminate clamping to the work bench


I left sonething off
Attachment:
Shooting board.png
Author:  Hesh [ Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Simple jigs for plate glue line planing?
SStallings wrote:
Here's a dumb question that has never been clear to me: When the plane is on its side, what is the sole of the plane touching--only the plates that it is planing or is it also riding on the bottom board? I presume only the plates.

I'm a little dense.


Not a stupid question at all my friend - the sole of the plane is riding on the plates as the blade trues them up. This is why it is so very important to have a plane that is "tuned" with a dead flat sole.
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Simple jigs for plate glue line planing?
Mild hijack

I have a friend tht has an old jointer #7 that has threaded holes in the side soles plates for a guide knob and push handel when used on a shooting board. I have searched everywhere for one like it. there is no visible name on the plane. Anyone know who made such a plane?
Author:  Frei [ Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Simple jigs for plate glue line planing?
Lillian F-W wrote:
Sounds like you want to be able to register your tops to each other and then camp into place so that after you shoot the joint and you aren't satisfied you can go back to where you were and touch it up. Is that correct?



YUp!
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Simple jigs for plate glue line planing?
Frei wrote:
Lillian F-W wrote:
Sounds like you want to be able to register your tops to each other and then camp into place so that after you shoot the joint and you aren't satisfied you can go back to where you were and touch it up. Is that correct?



YUp!


If you cut a common plane into either the top or bottom of the two plates at the same time on the table saw and use that common edge against the edge stop to index to (as shown on my shooting board drawing). Then all you need to do is lay a level down to butt the jointed edges against as you clamp down the cross bar clamp. Using this process I can go back and forth to the candle table over and over and it takes 10-15 seconds to re-place the plates in the shooting board perfectly every time. no need to drill index holes in anything. Just butt the common top plane the edge stop, hold the level with one hand and butt the joint edges against the level and tighten down the cross bar.

Personally I would not want to add index pins holes in the plates. things happen. you could potentially have a long grain split happen and need that width that the index pins holes now occupy.
Author:  Mike Mahar [ Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Simple jigs for plate glue line planing?
The important part of using this type of shooting board is to learn to tell when you are done without removing the boards from the clamps. You should be done when the plane blade is set to just kiss the wood and still it takes a full width ribbon of transparent wood.

When the sides are rough, the blade is set to make a very thin cut. You plane with this thin cut until you get a full width ribbon of wood. Then, with each pass, you raise the blade a very tiny amount and plane again. When you get the blade so that it no longer cuts the wood, it should be ready to join. Then you remove it from the jig and candle it. 80% of the time it will be perfect. If it isn't, you'll have to re clamp it and try again. When I re clamp I use the sole of the plane to get the two edges flush with each other.


There is another approach where you clamp the jointer plane (No. 7) to the shooting board and slide the two plates separately. You have mark the plates so that you always show the proper book match edge to the plane. You can then check the plates against each other after every pass. I've seen builders do this method and prepare their plates in only 2 or three passes and it takes less than a minute. But these guys made 40 guitars a year and had lots of practice.

In all cases, you want a very flat sole on your plane and a blade that is extremely sharp. The closer the side of your plane is to a perfect 90 degrees, the better.
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