Heath buddy what Rod said - be sure to trace out the string path too so see if the width of the top tuners cause the strings to hit the middle two tuners. Beyond that check-it-off the list item your designs look great!
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| Author: | Heath Blair [ Fri Nov 28, 2008 2:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | headstock design elements |
ive been spending a little bit of time trying to design a headstock and would like some comments on what ive come up with so far and also what your thoughts are on overall size of a headstock. my design is nothing very creative, in fact im sure there are plenty of others that are not much different. i want something simple, elegant and easy to machine. so the pictures below are basically what i have come up with. the one at left is the first drawing using the height and width of the headstock on my taylor, 7" x 3 1/4". it seemed a bit long and skinny to me and looked too much like an electric peg head. the second picture is basically the same design but a bit shorter and wider, 6 1/2" x 3 1/2". i actually like that one and would like some in put from you all. i am also wondering if there are any parameters that you have found that are good to stick to as far as height, width, tuner placement, etc. any other pitfalls to avoid? |
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| Author: | Rod True [ Fri Nov 28, 2008 2:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: headstock design elements |
Heath, that is a very very common shape (not that there's anything wrong with you using it). I use something very very similar to that. One thing to consider when designing a headstock shape (what I think about anyway) is the layout of the strings from the nut to the tuners. I like to make the strings angle from their exiting the nut to the tuner post to be as minimal as possible. I think (but have no data to back it up) that a sharp angle (one way or the other) can cause the string to hold up in the slot and put extra (although probably insignificant) tension on the tuner post. The other thing to think about is material use. I've seen a lot of high end custom makers starting to use thinner neck widths and adding larger wings to keep the waist in material down. Something to think about too when designing the headstock. |
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| Author: | James Orr [ Fri Nov 28, 2008 4:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: headstock design elements |
I really like it, Heath. I think the tips Rod gave you are really good. |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Fri Nov 28, 2008 4:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: headstock design elements |
Heath buddy what Rod said - be sure to trace out the string path too so see if the width of the top tuners cause the strings to hit the middle two tuners. Beyond that check-it-off the list item your designs look great!
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| Author: | SniderMike [ Fri Nov 28, 2008 4:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: headstock design elements |
I'll just add that you don't want the keys to be too close to the edge of the peghead. Usually I go about 9/16" from the center of the holes to the edge. Also, don't put the tuners too close to eachother, or looks cramped, and it's hard to get a string winder in there! I like the second drawing much better, by the way. |
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| Author: | Rod True [ Fri Nov 28, 2008 4:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: headstock design elements |
Good points Mike. I use 1/2" offset from the edge to tuner post center and 1-1/2" between tuner post centers. |
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| Author: | Heath Blair [ Fri Nov 28, 2008 7:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: headstock design elements |
hey, thanks for the encouragements guys! as i said before, i realize that it is a really common shape. while i do like the design, it is starting to bug me a bit already that it is virtually indistinguishable from many other builders' headstocks. im going to work on it a bit and see if i can set it apart from the crowd somehow. all of the comments on tuner spacing and making sure that the posts do not interfere with the string paths are well taken. ill take some time to scribe some lines in for the strings and posts before i take blade to any wood. on a side note: does anyone know of any free basic drafting programs out there? i spent a lot of time on cad a number of years ago, but i would just like something simple to play around with on my laptop at home. to be honest, id rather just have a big drafting table, but thats not happening right now. |
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| Author: | ChuckH [ Fri Nov 28, 2008 7:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: headstock design elements |
Your volute area from the wings to nut might be a little too long. But that's just me, you might love it that way. Heath, this is a timely post. One thing I love about this Forum is that when I have a question about something, it seems someone is just asking the same thing. I also like the design of your headstock, and I want exactly what you are drawing. I think it is elegant and simple, but that's what I like. My first headstock was the Martin paddle and in my opinion is just a little too boring for my taste. |
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| Author: | Heath Blair [ Fri Nov 28, 2008 8:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: headstock design elements |
chuck, you bring up a good point. the distance from the widest part of the wings to the nut in my drawing is 1.75". that distance on my taylor is 1.5". my thinking was that i actually want a carved round volute on the back of the headstock and i thought that might give some room between the volute and the tuners. ill have to draw some more views to figure that part out. |
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| Author: | Brett L Faust [ Fri Nov 28, 2008 8:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: headstock design elements |
Hi heath,you asked about a free drafting program. You might try Google Sketch up ,not my cup of tea but some folks like it. |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Fri Nov 28, 2008 9:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: headstock design elements |
Another thing to keep in mind is that some headstock shape (like Fender) is trademarked so if you use that shape and sell it you are infringing on trademark... Guys like Warmoth and Mighty Mite and Allpart has to get a license from Fender to sell a neck with that shape. |
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| Author: | JRE Productions [ Fri Nov 28, 2008 9:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: headstock design elements |
Heath Blair wrote: chuck, you bring up a good point. the distance from the widest part of the wings to the nut in my drawing is 1.75". that distance on my taylor is 1.5". my thinking was that i actually want a carved round volute on the back of the headstock and i thought that might give some room between the volute and the tuners. ill have to draw some more views to figure that part out. My new headstock design has a little added length in that same area. So far it looks like it will work out just fine. This allows me to use a fingerboard or Nut stop...which is to keep the binding on the headstock even with the binding on the neck. This method worked out really nice on my current build. It also gives me a little "wiggle" room with placing the fingerboard on the neck. Because I use a dovetail joint, you really don't know "exactly" where the fingerboard will mount to the neck until the dovetail is cut. If its a little deeper you will need to move the fingerboard toward the headstock a touch to get the body/fret joint right. This added space allows that to happen with no issues. JD |
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| Author: | LPMc [ Fri Nov 28, 2008 11:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: headstock design elements |
At 3-1/2" wide, you will probably have to add wings to the neck blank to make the headstock. The glue-up will set you back more time that the "ease of machining" that you are looking for. Larry |
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| Author: | Heath Blair [ Sat Nov 29, 2008 12:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: headstock design elements |
brett, thanks for that tip. ill have to give it a try. larry, yeah i figured id have to add some wings. anything over three inches will have to have wings i guess. personally i like the look of a wider headstock. having not measured too many, im unsure of how common anything over 3" is. my current drawings are to scale, but not full scale. so ill have to see how wide that actually looks at full size. this is my first guitar so time isnt really an issue. i started this one when my first child was born and she is going to be one year old in january. not exactly a factory here at the blair house. todd, your advice is always appreciated. im working on a practice neck right now so id like to get that one carved up. i wont spend too much more time on this as you suggested. |
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| Author: | Ken Franklin [ Sat Nov 29, 2008 12:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: headstock design elements |
Todd's advice is good. You will probably make refinements or even major changes down the road. The second drawing has a nice balance to it. The first looks a little skinny to my eye as others have said. Like Rod, I have the posts 1/2 inch from the edge and 1 1/2 inches apart. The distance from the nut to the first post is important because you need a break angle for the strings. Some tuners have taller posts so you will want to be certain that there is enough break angle for the E strings. Draw a side view with the string path to be sure. If you have a volute then you will know if the tuner base fits too. |
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| Author: | cphanna [ Sat Nov 29, 2008 1:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: headstock design elements |
Rod and Hesh had it nailed with regard to the string path. Buy your tuners first, and then draw your pattern out to scale. Make sure you have room for the tuner bodies on the back of the peg head, and draw the exact positions of the tuner posts on your plan. Then plot the path of your strings from the nut to the tuner post for all six strings. Then cut your shape and drill the holes (or drill and then cut). I was sooooo careful with mine, but in spite of my caution my two middle strings still run closer than I'd like to the B and A tuner posts. I stayed lucky this time, but I'll slightly alter my peghead shape next time. I suspect that you won't have much of that trouble with your tapered design, but you can't be too careful. With regard to the overall visual appeal, lay your headstock design down on the neck and body plan and visualize it in the context of the whole guitar. If you like what you see, then go for it! Good luck with it! Patrick |
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| Author: | Daniel Minard [ Sat Nov 29, 2008 3:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: headstock design elements |
My last commission had a custom headstock suggested by the owner. I made three plywood dummies before he (& I) was happy with it. No need to join the peghead at an angle, but include 6" or so of "neck". Drill it, install the tuners & hang it on the wall for a while & just look at it once in a while. I blew it once with a peghead for a small bodied guitar. It was quite short, & when the tuners were installed, it looked oddly flat on the top... Not enough length from the top tuners to the tip of the peghead. Your second drawing looks nicely balanced, but the tuners affect the appearance enormously. Hard to know for sure, without them drawn in. Take your time... this is part of the fun! |
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| Author: | Dave Stewart [ Sat Nov 29, 2008 10:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: headstock design elements |
I used Turbocad when I designed my headstock & found it really helped. Attachment: headstock2.JPG You can confirm string path, button & post placement etc. before ever drilling a hole. You can also download engineering drawing images for a lot of tuners from stewmac, rescale them to full size & see if a different tuner is going to work. |
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| Author: | Ken C [ Sat Dec 20, 2008 12:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: headstock design elements |
Dave Stewart wrote: You can also download engineering drawing images for a lot of tuners from stewmac, rescale them to full size & see if a different tuner is going to work. Hey Dave, where do you find those drawing images? I use Adobe Illustrator. Not the best CAD program, but workable. I'd like to get my hands on some drawings for some Gotoh tuners. Ken |
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| Author: | Dave Stewart [ Sat Dec 20, 2008 1:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: headstock design elements |
Ken, the stewmac website has them for many. Call up a tuner, click "specs" & you'll see a dimensioned dwg (same one as in the catalogue). I just copy/paste, do a line drawing on a new layer overtop, then scale it up to the known dimensions. |
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| Author: | James W B [ Sat Dec 20, 2008 1:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: headstock design elements |
I like the second one, but I think it`s been over used,and I`m personally,no offense to anyone,a little tired of it.Eventually as Todd has said you`ll probably work into more inventive and creative shapes. James |
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| Author: | Heath Blair [ Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: headstock design elements |
James W B wrote: I like the second one, but I think it`s been over used,and I`m personally,no offense to anyone,a little tired of it.Eventually as Todd has said you`ll probably work into more inventive and creative shapes. James agreed. because i want something relatively simple in design and definitely classy, im having a hard time designing something that a) hasnt been done or overdone and b) doesnt depart from simplicity and class. in other words, its difficult to be unique and simple. |
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| Author: | Mike Lindstrom [ Sat Dec 20, 2008 3:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: headstock design elements |
Hey Heath, when you're checking your string paths, remember the strings dont run to the center of the tuning posts. You need to offset them the radius of the post or so. I know it's obvious. Certainly, I would never have screwed up a guitar in that way. I'm just saying it's possible. Dave's drawing shows what I (I mean, a person) should have done. Mike |
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| Author: | Heath Blair [ Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: headstock design elements |
mike, thats funny. i hadnt really thought about it to be honest, but thanks for the heads up. |
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| Author: | Ken C [ Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: headstock design elements |
Dave Stewart wrote: Ken, the stewmac website has them for many. Call up a tuner, click "specs" & you'll see a dimensioned dwg (same one as in the catalogue). I just copy/paste, do a line drawing on a new layer overtop, then scale it up to the known dimensions. Got 'em Dave. They helped a lot. I spent a couple of hours this afternoon noodling designs in Illustrator. Came up with the design below. I borrowed design cues from a number of other headstocks I had seen out there. Hard to come up with something entirely original. As you can guess, I flyfish, so I am doing this guitar with a flyfishing theme, nothing over the top, just line art from some of my pencil sketches. The fish and fly will be inlaid in the headstock, and I will be using flies or fish on the fretboard as well. I don't have those fully fleshed out yet. The body of my 000 is done, so I need to get my designs finished. Attachment: Headstock1.jpg Ken |
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