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| Can Wood Binding Be Bent Like This? http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=19708 |
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| Author: | Chris Paulick [ Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Can Wood Binding Be Bent Like This? |
Here is some cellulose binding bent to what I'm after for the ribrest. I want to do it in Maple but don't know if it can be done. The hard part is the ends. Would SS2 make it possible to get that sweep at the ends? There will be a B/W/B purf at .068" which will put the edge of the binding closer to the ribrest . But I'll also have a simular sweep on the side binding also. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can Wood Binding Be Bent Like This? |
That shape could be done. It will be a slow and touchy process but can be done the wood will want to warp a bit as you bend it but get it bent and press it flat between a couple sheets of MDF. You might want to treat the binding a day or two ahead of time with SupersoftII before attempting the bend. |
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| Author: | Chris Paulick [ Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can Wood Binding Be Bent Like This? |
I tried to get the end last night and when I would get close it would always snapped. So you think the SS2 would give me the ability to do it. The binding is .210 X .065"-.070". |
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| Author: | Barry Daniels [ Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can Wood Binding Be Bent Like This? |
Bending sharp bends is greatly assisted by using a sheet metal backer strip to spread the stress over a larger area. Also, you need a bending iron with a smaller diameter than those two sharp bends on the end. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can Wood Binding Be Bent Like This? |
The SSII will help but because you bending across the grain structure you will not get as much help from it as you do when bending withthe grain. Barry is correct you do need a smaller diamater pipe or iron for the tight bends. |
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| Author: | Chris Paulick [ Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can Wood Binding Be Bent Like This? |
I'm not sure I understand you Barry about the backer. The problem is I'm bending on the flat or across the wide part of the binding. I'm not sure that's clear from the photo. I have an Ibex electric hand bender. |
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| Author: | Barry Daniels [ Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can Wood Binding Be Bent Like This? |
No, it was not clear to me that you are bending on the flat. That makes it much much more difficult. In fact, I would not even bother to attempt a bend like that and I have done some pretty outrageous bends with wood. It will be fairly easy to just cut that out of a solid piece of wood. A spindle sander would make quick work of it. The backer I mentioned earlier is a piece of sheet metal that you put on the outside of the wood when bending on an pipe. The backer holds in heat and spreads the bending stress over a larger area. Normally the bending stress is located at the point where the wood contacts the pipe so wood fractures fairly easy when you apply some force. |
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| Author: | Pat Foster [ Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can Wood Binding Be Bent Like This? |
I think trying to get a tight curve on a flat piece would be a real challenge, even with SS2. It does make the wood softer, in a sense, but it doesn't help the fibers hold together, in my experience. Use a bandsaw to cut a piece out of a flat piece of maple, like an orphan side, maybe. Like cutting a piece for inlay. Pat edit: I just realized that's what Barry recommended. |
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| Author: | Dave Stewart [ Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can Wood Binding Be Bent Like This? |
Another option might be to mill a piece an inch wide (thickness to width shown), steam it & bend it over a hot pipe (gloves!). When dry, rip a few pieces as needed. |
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| Author: | Barry Daniels [ Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can Wood Binding Be Bent Like This? |
Chris, why orient the binding flat? That may look odd in conjunction with the rest of the binding on the back. |
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| Author: | Chris Paulick [ Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can Wood Binding Be Bent Like This? |
Barry Daniels wrote: Chris, why orient the binding flat? That may look odd in conjunction with the rest of the binding on the back. I was going from a tutorial from 2003 by Tony Karol on an armrest in the MIMF library. Although he did it in black binding and pieced the binding together from thinner strips and the joints didn't show and finished the arm rest black. I have some SSII on the way. I just finished the side binding channel. I'm probably going to wait on the SSII and see how that works out. I have a feeling it 's not going to work out though. So my other thought might be to half the width of the maple binding thinking that it probably would bend okay. And that it might appear as if the binding splits in two when it enters and leaves the bevel. Since the channel is already cut to the width on top and heigth on the side I'm thinking I could substitude another piece of wood towards the inside of the bevel and finish it black along with the the bevel ribrest so that the joint isn't noticable. I'm thinking I should have made the ribrest and armrest wood the same type of wood as the binding so that the binding could have just ran into the beveled wood. Sort of like the tutorial here without using veneer. This is why I consider this my practice guitar. I rather work out this kind of thing on this one before building the one with the Claro and Red Spruce. |
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| Author: | TonyKarol [ Wed Nov 19, 2008 12:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can Wood Binding Be Bent Like This? |
You are discovering the challenges I thought of whne doing these - thats why i usually only do them in dark binding, preferably the same as the guitar sides if possible. obviously ebony works out the best, you simply piece it all together then black out the whole rest - that Grit Laskin guy is pretty on the ball !!!! I am almost done my new personal baritone (curly koa, bearclaw sitka, sipo neck, and the binding is ebony, but I used the black fibre for binding the two rests - its a slightly less black colour than the ebony, and the blacked out lacquer that was used, but its pretty sweet. The stuff bends like butter when required as well. You could also do the veneer over the ribrest and most of the binding if you did it in thinner strips (you would cover the bevelled part of the binding). It also looks like the binding ledge isnt thicker than the back's thickness - what will cover that ??? I always route the binding ledge deeper than the thickness of the top or back so that all that will show (if left natural) is the binding, and the rest piece. |
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| Author: | Chris Paulick [ Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can Wood Binding Be Bent Like This? |
Thanks for the tips. I'm leaning towards blacking out the rest and using ebony between the binding and rest. I'll route that outer edge down to the rest wood. |
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