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Honing Guide
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=19703		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Darryl Young [ Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Honing Guide
Just received this honing guide in the mail from ToolsforWorkingWood:
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=EE-HG-800-1800&Category_Code=THG

It was recommended on this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQEH-neQa9A

It's a cheap, foreign made honing guide which the guy in the video says works fine.

Tonight I put my 1/2" wide Marples chisel in it and adjusted it so it is hanging out of the guide 1 3/16" as the instructions say this gives a 30 deg bevel. I've never resharpened this chisel (and it needs it) so I started out on a medium grit diamind whetstone.

It works fine.....except the end of the new bevel isn't parallel to the edge of the blade. The edge appeared to be square before I started so it appears the guide isn't holding the chisel perfectly flat. The recess that holds the chisel is sloped off to a sharp angle and I noticed the sides of my chisel have a flat side roughly 3/32" wide.

I'm curious if it's just a cheap guide and won't hold the chisel parallel or if the shape of the recess holding the chisel just won't work with the profile of my chisel or if I'm doing something wrong? Any suggestion?
Author:  Darryl Young [ Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Honing Guide
An update.

After removing the chisel I can see on either side of the aluminum casting that is holding the chisel. On one side there is a line the entire length of the casting. The opposite casting has a mork only in the middle of the casting. Apparently the two sides aren't parallel. Guess you get what you pay for! <smile>

If I had to guess the root of the problem is the profile of the recess on the insides of each casting does not match the profile of the side of the blade (there is a flat side on the blade); therefore the chisel gets cocked slightly when the guide is tightened.

Any poor boy rework ideas appreciated! <smile>
Author:  Daniel Minard [ Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Honing Guide
That style of honing guide has one straight side & one curved side with a lip to retain the tool. I find this style works well on plane irons, but not on most of my chisels. I have three different honing guides & still have to sharpen a couple of my chisels free hand. I hear the new Veritas guide system from Lee Valley is a good one but haven't tried it myself.
Good luck... And don't throw that guide away. It works great on some tools.
Author:  Darryl Young [ Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Honing Guide
Thanks Daniel!

Your right, one side is curved. I guess the lip on the curved side that should hold the chisel level must be a little thick as that side is cutting back further than the other side.

I wonder if I could use a sandpaper or a file on that lip and get the guide where it holds the chisel flat? If I could thin the lip just a little right in the middle of the curve I think it would then hold the chisel level.
Author:  Darryl Young [ Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Honing Guide
I'll fish one more time and see if anyone has a better idea before I try filing the lip to level my chisel.

Oh, and one other question......do you typically need to tighten teh screw with pliars or screwdriver to lock the chisel in place? I at first tightened only hand tight and the chisle slipped. After tightening with pliers there was no problem.
Author:  Joseph E. Young [ Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Honing Guide
The best honing guide I've ever used is the Veritas guide from Lee valley .Its 60.00 bucks but dose a excellent job time after time. Dont waste your money on anything eles but dont loose the instruction book and dont ask how I know that
Author:  Arnt Rian [ Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Honing Guide
Joseph, I've never owned a Veritas honing guide, but I have used eclipse style guides for years, and I don't think they were a waste of money; quite the contrary, they are probably some of the best 'bang for the buck' tools I have. It does all I need such a tool to do, and quickly too, and it's inexpensive. What's not to like?

And something tells me that if you need an instruction book to use a honing guide, the guide is a)more complicated than necessary, or b) your advice it not really based on a lot of experience.
Author:  Dave Higham [ Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Honing Guide
I've used an Eclipse guide for as long as I can remember. It's true that chisels with bevels on the back can be tricky but I wouldn't consider spending a helluva lot more money for something not much better and a lot more complicated.

I worked for 20 years for David Mellor who was design consultant to James Neill & Co. (Eclipse) and we worked on the aesthetics and ergonomics of several of their hand tools. When it came to the honing guide there was very little to be done, apart from smoothing a few contours, so we more or less left it alone.
Author:  archtop [ Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Honing Guide
Oh man! Darryl, your post bummed me out a little! :) I just bought an Asian Eclipse style jig and was hoping to be able to shave some hair off my arm real soon! So are all of these guides defective out of the box? I bought mine from LN. I've always had stellar dealings with them so if there's a problem I'm sure they will have a solution.

Darryl, maybe you just got a lemon? Between your main problem, plus having to tighten the guide with pliers I would think you should check if you have the option to do an exchange or something? Let us know how it develops.
-John
Author:  TonyFrancis [ Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Honing Guide
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Author:  Joseph E. Young [ Thu Nov 20, 2008 7:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Honing Guide
Rian I admit that the veritas honing guide is slightly complicated but in over 40 years of wood working after useing this guide with the 8000 water stone and micro bevel then stroping with jewlers rouge I havent been able to get a tool sharper Joe
Author:  Darryl Young [ Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Honing Guide
I worked with the guide again last night after cleaning everything up with a 6" triangular file. Filing made little difference.......but, after studying everything closely the problem seems to be the narrow flat sides on my Marples chisels (the ones with the blue plastic handles). The flat side doesn't clamp properly in the tapered clamp area of the guide.

After playing with it awhile, I manged to get my 1/2" chisel sharpened with an even edge. I never did get my 1/4" chisel to clamp up evenly so the edge is skewed. So archtop, I think you will be ok......and both chisels are extremely sharp even if one is skewed.
Author:  Lars Stahl [ Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Honing Guide
I have the that wery honing guide, got it from Lee Valley. I had never before sharpen a chisel , So I used it and for me it workt like a charm. I did skary sharp, and the hair came of of my arm as I tried to see how well it was charpened !! so maby you just got the only bad one ? !! . I do agree though, it hard to get the chisel to fit perfekt in the guide, my lie- Neilsen chisel is a bit thick, but It workt great. about 3cm out to get a 30 degree angle, check out the scary sharp video at youtube you mentioned again, at 1.37 in he shows a jig to get the angle, that jig takes 2 minutes to do ! just place a bit of wood on a wooden plate of some sort and take the chisel out to it. when you do this keep the chisel flat on the plate.

Lars
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