Official Luthiers Forum! :: View topic - I want to become a luthier!

Pierced Brosnan wrote:

... but opted out of going to university ...
I've always enjoyed making and creating things, whether with my hands or mind ...

Contrary to popular belief, mostly held by people that never attended university, there are plenty of "hands on" and creational capabilities in university setting. Such folks are often led to engineering disciplines, the arts, physics, et cetera. Often folks end up in the dreary jobs with little latitude and figure out that university can provide more options to figure it out.

Filippo

I should have added that probably the best path to guitar building is guitar repair. With the help of some books, Frank Ford's incredibly resourceful frets.com site and a few cheap beaters to start with you'll be able to see different designs, good and bad, and get some skills. And move on to more valuable instruments.
In any case a builder should be prepared to see his creations come back to the shop and be able to fix whatever needs attention.
If there is any "making a living" in this craft, guitar repair is it. Not that it's easy either… Some of the skills required to do high quality repairs far exceed what's needed to build a guitar from scratch.
Hesh is a little finicky about the term "luthier"… My thought is if you're able to build a decent guitar, a lute, vihuela, harp or violin will present new challenges, but somewhat familiar. It is strings and wood.

I should start by telling you the old joke about the luthier who won the lottery. When they asked him what he would do with all the money, he said "I guess I'll just go on making instruments until it runs out".

In other words, the best advice anyone could give you, and no-one has yet, is don't give up the day job. As others have said, make an instrument and see if you like it. If after that you're still really obsessed, think about a course. Newark is probably the best bet but don't take my word for it. Find people who have done the course and ask them. You'll have to learn how to do repairs and be good at it because that is where you're bread and butter will probably come from. No-one's going to beat a path to your door for you to make them an instrument until you have a reputation.

The fact that you're 18 and live in the UK does matter, to some extent. People here might say "buy a Stewmac or LMII kit for a start" or "get a set of Honduras mahogany from Stewmac, it's not very expensive". Beware! Those people are in the US and don't realise how much the kit will cost you once you've added transport costs and HM Customs have finished with it, and Stewmac won't sell you the Hondo mahogany 'cos they're not allowed to export it.

I know I'm raining on your parade, but you must realise that the majority of people on this forum are not professional luthiers doing it to pay the bills. They are amateurs in the strict sense of the word. They do it because they love it. They produce exquisite instruments but in the daytime they are airline pilots, architects, university professors, doctors, teachers, factory workers, etc. and a lot (like me) are retired from the day-job. Luthery is a (rather expensive) hobby for most people. I'm sure you probably know that you can't easily build a guitar cheaper than you can buy one. (You'll build a better one though!)

Sorry to be so negative. It's a wonderful obsessive hobby but I wouldn't want to do it for a living. So, as they used to say up our way, 'think on lad'.

Edit: Laurent got in with a few well-chosen words while I was bashing the keyboard.

That's a stage saying!
it actually means -GOOD LUCK!

Sorry!
Mike idunno

Author:	Pierced Brosnan [ Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:51 pm ]
Post subject:	I want to become a luthier!
Hello everyone, my first post This seems a really cool place Anyway, I'll begin with a story! Basically I finished my A-levels this summer, but opted out of going to university, I didn't really think it was for me, plus not wanting to be apart from my girlfriend etc. so I decided to go into employment. I started working in a very hectic office a few weeks ago, and well, I hate it lol (for many reasons, but thats another story), but because of this what I think I want to do for a living is becoming clearer, which is a plus! I've always enjoyed making and creating things, whether with my hands or mind, I have a HUGE passion for music, and play the guitar which I love doing. While working in the office I realised what sort of things I want from a job, and over the past few days I've been looking into stuff about luthiers, and it seems like something I can really see myself doing, something creative but productive, and something I can take pride in doing, and it also involves music and things I enjoy Anyway, I'm starting to ramble, so I'll get to the point; what advice would you give to someone who wants to start doing this? How did you all become luthiers? Where should I go or try to start doing something like this? I'm 18 and live in the UK if that matters lol. Thanks for taking time to read my overly long post

Author:	Jody [ Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: I want to become a luthier!
welcome to the forum , have you considered seeking profesional help? Jody

Author:	Laurent Brondel [ Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:27 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: I want to become a luthier!
First you may want to try to build a guitar, and see if you like it… There are excellent quality kits available from Martin, LMI, John Hall etc. They are available at different levels, sides pre-bent, plates already joined, or just the raw parts. There are quite a few books out there, Cumpiano & Nathelson, Kinkhead, Bogdanovich. The methods are different but they all have a lot to offer to the novice and seasoned builder alike. You do not need a whole panoply of tools and power tools to do this, minimalism is good and learning how to use and sharpen hand tools a must. Check the archive of this forum for pointers, and google all you can find on how to build a guitar. Quite a few builders have their building process detailed on their websites, and a lot of amateurs have put online documentaries on how they build as well. Resources are plentiful on the web. Then try to find luthiers in the UK, contact them to see if they would take an apprentice (unlikely…), you may have better luck with small production shops. Bring your guitar and take all the advice you can gather. Maybe there are a couple of luthiery schools in the UK. Next best bet would be to study cabinet making and get a degree. I am sure the schools are excellent in the UK given the long tradition there. Luthiery is woodworking… Needless to say, making a living building instruments is extremely difficult but do not let that discourage you if it's calling you. Best of luck and ask questions on the forum, plenty of knowledgeable people here.

Author:	Sam Price [ Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: I want to become a luthier!
Welcome to the forum, there are a few of us UK stragglers round here. It may well be that you can't start building guitars form home due to lack of space, living in an apartment etc, but at your age you will be able to enrol on a degree course in guitar building and technology. Where abouts in the UK do you live? There are various courses around the UK...Manchester, Derby, London and of course Totnes in Devon. All places offer great course opportunities and some offer evening courses too. If that isn't possible, attend a woodworking class near you for a time to get experience of working with materials and techniques that will be used for guitar building. Reading forums like these will give you more of an idea what it is all about- and find out what reading material there is out there too. It's great to be well prepared- and a little time-testing will prove whether it's a whim or not. I waited 8 years.... I went the route of building at home due to location and logistics. I have a workshop at home and can't really travel far on a regular basis (Y'know how tight money is these days, huh?) It is easy to fool oneself into thinking that it can be done cheaply at home, but there is a substantial financial outlay even for one guitar build- an average toolkit at home will not contain all you need to build a guitar. That is why I suggest a course where tools are supplied, and someone is there to teach you how to use the tools properly. There may be luthiers around you that might be happy for you to watch over their shoulder...if you PM me your rough location, I might be able to point you in the right direction.

Author:	Mike Collins [ Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: I want to become a luthier!
Laurent has given you great advise! Now -just do it! Mike

Official Luthiers Forum! http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/

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Author:	Hesh [ Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: I want to become a luthier!
Mr. Bond welcome to the OLF! So it's the girlfriend's fault that you are not in college? Seriously the advice above to build a guitar and see how you like it is excellent advice. If that works out for you then I would pursue a structured and targeted education in Lutherie AND if it were me I would also do so in such a manner that a college degree is in the works at the same time. In the states there are colleges that you can do this at - hopefully Robbie and Mike will weigh-in here. Lastly we are not all Luthiers, in fact, although there is no strict and universally accepted definition of the term "Luthier" I can tell that I am not a Luthier. I am a guitar builder, also an honorable thing. Luthiers have much more experience with a variety of instruments and are also savvy on the repair side as well. Many of my associates here on this forum are guitar builders as well but I will most certainly leave it to them as a matter of personal preference to define themselves - if they wish....... Again welcome!

Author:	Mike Collins [ Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: I want to become a luthier!
P.B. Guitarmaking as Hesh has pointed out is not an easy calling ! I've made & repaired instruments (mostly guitars ) for 33 years! I'm still learning-as I think all the OLF fraternity are! So keep posting & watching this place -it's the place to be for all new & old guitarmakers!!! Search out a local maker or school to help you ! Best of luck!!-break a leg! Mike

Author:	WaddyThomson [ Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: I want to become a luthier!
C'm'on Mike, we're supposed to be nice to our new members. Break a leg!

Author:	Pierced Brosnan [ Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: I want to become a luthier!
Thanks for all of your replies! and for all your advice, helpful I understand it may not be an easy line of work to be in, I'm more concerned about being happy than being rich I don't really know a huge deal about the ins and outs of being a luthier, but I know enough that I feel I want to find out more about it, I thought a good way to start would be to find like minded people who could help me and I ended up here! I may have to look into building a guitar, Also Hesh, I think I might be better at specialising in just guitars too as thats what I .... specialise in lol, im familiar with guitars and no its not just my girlfriends fault lol, I didn't really want to leave home, and Im not hugely into the whole getting drunk every night thing, plus I'd end up in debt! And Sam, I'm just near Chester if you know where that is? Again, thanks for all your friendly replies.

Author:	Mike Collins [ Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: I want to become a luthier!
That's a stage saying! it actually means -GOOD LUCK! Sorry! Mike

Author:	Pierced Brosnan [ Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: I want to become a luthier!
fmorelli wrote: Pierced Brosnan wrote: ... but opted out of going to university ... I've always enjoyed making and creating things, whether with my hands or mind ... Contrary to popular belief, mostly held by people that never attended university, there are plenty of "hands on" and creational capabilities in university setting. Such folks are often led to engineering disciplines, the arts, physics, et cetera. Often folks end up in the dreary jobs with little latitude and figure out that university can provide more options to figure it out. Filippo I understand that there are many courses that I could be interested in, there were a few reasons I chose not to go down the uni path, also at the time, I didn't really have a clue what I wanted to do in life, and I didn't just want to go on some course that I may not want a job in in later life if that makes sense, we had to decide about uni pretty much over a year ago as it all gets sorted out a long time in advance, but anyway I can always try to get into a uni next year if i change my mind, the thought has ran through my head once or twice, but its not something im huge on at the moment EDIT: Also, I'm not really experienced in woodwork or anything it's never been taught properly in any schools I've been in so I guess i'm a complete 'n00b' when it comes to this sort of stuff. Although I did make a wooden box, a motorised toy car and other little things in a technology class in high school, but that was very basic and years ago lol

Author:	Laurent Brondel [ Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:35 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: I want to become a luthier!
I should have added that probably the best path to guitar building is guitar repair. With the help of some books, Frank Ford's incredibly resourceful frets.com site and a few cheap beaters to start with you'll be able to see different designs, good and bad, and get some skills. And move on to more valuable instruments. In any case a builder should be prepared to see his creations come back to the shop and be able to fix whatever needs attention. If there is any "making a living" in this craft, guitar repair is it. Not that it's easy either… Some of the skills required to do high quality repairs far exceed what's needed to build a guitar from scratch. Hesh is a little finicky about the term "luthier"… My thought is if you're able to build a decent guitar, a lute, vihuela, harp or violin will present new challenges, but somewhat familiar. It is strings and wood.

Author:	Dave Higham [ Tue Oct 28, 2008 6:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: I want to become a luthier!
I should start by telling you the old joke about the luthier who won the lottery. When they asked him what he would do with all the money, he said "I guess I'll just go on making instruments until it runs out". In other words, the best advice anyone could give you, and no-one has yet, is don't give up the day job. As others have said, make an instrument and see if you like it. If after that you're still really obsessed, think about a course. Newark is probably the best bet but don't take my word for it. Find people who have done the course and ask them. You'll have to learn how to do repairs and be good at it because that is where you're bread and butter will probably come from. No-one's going to beat a path to your door for you to make them an instrument until you have a reputation. The fact that you're 18 and live in the UK does matter, to some extent. People here might say "buy a Stewmac or LMII kit for a start" or "get a set of Honduras mahogany from Stewmac, it's not very expensive". Beware! Those people are in the US and don't realise how much the kit will cost you once you've added transport costs and HM Customs have finished with it, and Stewmac won't sell you the Hondo mahogany 'cos they're not allowed to export it. I know I'm raining on your parade, but you must realise that the majority of people on this forum are not professional luthiers doing it to pay the bills. They are amateurs in the strict sense of the word. They do it because they love it. They produce exquisite instruments but in the daytime they are airline pilots, architects, university professors, doctors, teachers, factory workers, etc. and a lot (like me) are retired from the day-job. Luthery is a (rather expensive) hobby for most people. I'm sure you probably know that you can't easily build a guitar cheaper than you can buy one. (You'll build a better one though!) Sorry to be so negative. It's a wonderful obsessive hobby but I wouldn't want to do it for a living. So, as they used to say up our way, 'think on lad'. Edit: Laurent got in with a few well-chosen words while I was bashing the keyboard.

Author:	Pierced Brosnan [ Tue Oct 28, 2008 6:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: I want to become a luthier!
Dave Higham wrote: I should start by telling you the old joke about the luthier who won the lottery. When they asked him what he would do with all the money, he said "I guess I'll just go on making instruments until it runs out". In other words, the best advice anyone could give you, and no-one has yet, is don't give up the day job. As others have said, make an instrument and see if you like it. If after that you're still really obsessed, think about a course. Newark is probably the best bet but don't take my word for it. Find people who have done the course and ask them. You'll have to learn how to do repairs and be good at it because that is where you're bread and butter will probably come from. No-one's going to beat a path to your door for you to make them an instrument until you have a reputation. The fact that you're 18 and live in the UK does matter, to some extent. People here might say "buy a Stewmac or LMII kit for a start" or "get a set of Honduras mahogany from Stewmac, it's not very expensive". Beware! Those people are in the US and don't realise how much the kit will cost you once you've added transport costs and HM Customs have finished with it, and Stewmac won't sell you the Hondo mahogany 'cos they're not allowed to export it. I know I'm raining on your parade, but you must realise that the majority of people on this forum are not professional luthiers doing it to pay the bills. They are amateurs in the strict sense of the word. They do it because they love it. They produce exquisite instruments but in the daytime they are airline pilots, architects, university professors, doctors, teachers, factory workers, etc. and a lot (like me) are retired from the day-job. Luthery is a (rather expensive) hobby for most people. I'm sure you probably know that you can't easily build a guitar cheaper than you can buy one. (You'll build a better one though!) Sorry to be so negative. It's a wonderful obsessive hobby but I wouldn't want to do it for a living. So, as they used to say up our way, 'think on lad'. Edit: Laurent got in with a few well-chosen words while I was bashing the keyboard. Thanks for your reply, and it's fine that I might not be able to make a living from it, making my own guitar is something ive always thought would be cool to do, but if it just so happens that I could end up making money from doing stuff then thats an added bonus Also, my dad is teaching me about the stock market, as he does a bit of trading on the side and I may begin work on that to bring in some extra money (even if the economy is crap!) also as i said somewhere before, I'm going to try and get a job working in music stores, which would be cool anyway, as id get discounts on instruments and be surrounded by them all day I'm sure i'll be able to find someting that makes me happy eventually, just gotta keep looking I guess

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Author:	MacD [ Tue Oct 28, 2008 6:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: I want to become a luthier!
The main thing is to get experience. Work on whatever instruments come along, maybe do a woodworking evening class. If you can't find a local college that does guitar making or repair, try fine woodworking or furniture making; that'll give you a good grounding in the woodworking skills you'll need. Try music shops, but also try to find out if there are any musical instrument distributors around - I've made a decent living out of setting up guitars in a warehouse in the past. It is possible to make a living out of repair and setup work, but it depends on what work is available locally and whether you can get it. I moved to Yorkshire a few years ago and haven't been able to find regular guitar work here - working with furniture for now.. Cheers, Bri

Author:	jfmckenna [ Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: I want to become a luthier!
It's probably different for so many guitar makers but for me when I seriously looked into this as my career I found that the repair business made the money and the guitar making was a nice side job. Now I have a full time job, dropped the repairs, except for a few word by mouth valued customers, and build a few guitars a year. Still it helps with the bills and is a whole lot of fun to do. It's my retirement plan actually I don't want to shred your dreams, at 18 years old what have you got to loose? And you could be the next Arcangel Fernandez who knows. Seriously, consider taking a business class too. You have to manage your own business affairs and it includes a whole lot form balancing a budget to marketing etc...

Author:	John Hale [ Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: I want to become a luthier!
I've a friend whose a successful luthier just outside london competetive prices and he works 9am till 9pm except when he's gigging spent 4 years training and he appears to have a good lifestyle but that's some dedecation and 30 years gaining a good customer base!!!

Author:	WaddyThomson [ Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: I want to become a luthier!
Mike Collins wrote: That's a stage saying! it actually means -GOOD LUCK! Sorry! Mike Sorry Mike, I was just pullin your leg! Hope I didn't break it!

Author:	Mike OMelia [ Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: I want to become a luthier!
Use your J.O.B. to fund your education and business. Welcometo OLF. Mike

Author:	Frank Cousins [ Wed Oct 29, 2008 3:16 am ]
Post subject:	Re: I want to become a luthier!
Firstly Good Luck! I think Dave Higman makes some very good points - for most people building a guitar or several is about the love of it and for many this hobby actually costs them money - getting into the realms of actually selling what you build is not only down to the skills which can take years to develop, but also luck! and investment, and its probably fair to say a talent for discovery. I am not a luthier, I have built 1 guitar from scratch and I intend to carry on as its such a wonderful way to spend money! I dream of being able to give up the professional career and build myself a workshop and build guitars all day, but it is not possible as I know that I would probably never make enough money to pay the mortgage or bills or feed the family... even if the quality of the instrument is first class and a work of expensive art (The guitars I have seen the guys on here produce look so be wonderful its inspirational) finding a niche in a very competitive market - especially from the UK where we still suffer from a bit of brand snobbery (I know there are still many who if looking to spend £2000 on an instrument feel more comfortable opting for a US brand name, rather than a small UK builder - I have been one of them!) I am not trying to put you off but would make one recommendation: Have a back up plan - learn skills in more than one area - even have a change of heart and get a degree because it would be such a shame if you had to give up on a dream because of finance - stick in the job and start to build a guitar as a hobby - see if there is a local luthier willing to take on a student an evening a week or so - you will probably have to pay - but when spread out its not so bad - as the tools will be available as will the first hand advice - above all enjoy it - for me it was the perfect way to unwind from the day job that pays the bills. Alternatively, get on a degree course - although these tend to take 3 years to build 1 instrument! Do bare in mind the cost as well as the US prices for both tools and tonewoods are about 40% lower in the US. There are suppliers in the UK, but it helps if you have the advice of a pro when making those first purchases. I am of course an embittered close to 40 something wagee slave who wishes he had his time again to start over - and the freedom to choose a more creative path - but the path I chose meant I met my wife and have an amazing family and nice home - so i cant complain, especially as I get to spend 2 hours a week building guitars... so dont listen to me... or ...

Author:	Mike OMelia [ Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:44 am ]
Post subject:	Re: I want to become a luthier!
Alas, I fear that the money is in the tools... Just like the Gold Rush. Better to sell shovels to fools with gold in their eyes than to search for gold. So, I think one had better love this hobby! Mike

Author:	Alan [ Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: I want to become a luthier!
So do I! I am only working on number 4, so it will be many years before I get to that point! "There are quite a few books out there, Cumpiano & Nathelson, Kinkhead, Bogdanov" I think that I have that Kinkhead fellow's book!