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| How to get the sound out of a small body? http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=19208 |
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| Author: | ncovey [ Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | How to get the sound out of a small body? |
Thought I'd ask what others here think about small bodied guitars and the techniques used in building to get the most sound out of them. I have a lot of fun with the little ones, and am really starting to enjoy the tonal quality exhibited by parlour and smaller instruments. Any ideas and thoughts on building them smaller?? |
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| Author: | Jeremy Douglas [ Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How to get the sound out of a small body? |
ncovey wrote: I have a lot of fun with the little ones, and am really starting to enjoy the tonal quality exhibited by parlour and smaller instruments. Any ideas and thoughts on building them smaller?? ideas on building them smaller than a parlor? How about under a microscope. |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How to get the sound out of a small body? |
Nehemiah buddy there is a recent post, last week I believe, about optimizing guitars for loudness. In the thread Al Carruth talks about some things that can be done to smaller guitars to make them louder. Check it out - it sounds like what you are asking about. |
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| Author: | ncovey [ Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How to get the sound out of a small body? |
I read the other posts and some I dug up, but they were more about standard guitar sizes. Parlour and smaller is not the norm, but I build a few. Thanks anyway. I 'll go dig in the archives. |
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| Author: | Alan Carruth [ Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How to get the sound out of a small body? |
William Stout was an airplane designer in the '30s and '40s; one of his designs was the Ford 'Trimotor', the first marginally successful airliner. It has been said that the motto of his design group was: "Simplicate, and add in more lightness." You won't get the thumping bass out of a 00 that a Dread gives you; there isn't enough air in the box. What you will get is 'carry', and 'clarity' in the high end. You can make the main air resonant mode a little lower in pitch by making the soundhole smaller, at the cost of some volume. You can also drop the 'main air' pitch by moving the hole up toward the upper edge/neck, but that loses you some frets you might like to have. I had a classical/00 size guitar at Montreal with a Redwood top and Cherry B&S that surprised me a bit with it's bass response. I'm not sure I can give you a 'magic formula' for why it worked so well: as I say, I was a little surprised. It does have a 14-fret neck instead of the usual 12, which allows for the soundhole to be higher up, and that may have something to do with it. The only smaller steel string I ever made was based on a Panormo of the 1840s, and that one lacked fundamental in the bass range. It was LOUD though, partly because it weighed almost nothing. |
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| Author: | Sam Price [ Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How to get the sound out of a small body? |
A friend of mine has a redwood/walnut parlour guitar built by an "unknown" full-time luthier in the UK, which has amazing clarity and volume for such a small size. Soon I will visit her with a few Dentist mirrors and a flashlight; she's been warned...I want to examine this guitar...and hopefully play it too. 
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| Author: | bob_connor [ Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How to get the sound out of a small body? |
I've been building a few O models in the last year and I've found that forward shifting the bracing can even out the response nicely. I'm not sure whether this accentuates the bass or attenuates the mids but most guitarists who have played them comment on the lack of "honk' in the mids as compared to a Martin O or OO. |
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| Author: | ncovey [ Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How to get the sound out of a small body? |
Hey thanks for the feed-back guys, this is kinda what I wanted to hear. For the next couple guitars I have to make them very small, short scale and little bodies, doesn't leave much room for volume, and accentuating a little bass is rather tough. What I have started doing, (and I'll explain at the mercy of the long-in-tooth builders) let's say the body is 16" x 12" bout, 3-1/2" depth, tone desired is harp like, but the key factor asked is woodiness, ok, that's what I left out of my original post, the desired tone is to sound woody and bright. I have made a few of these and they were bright but I wouldn't venture a description of woody, If I make the bridge plate a little thicker and softer wood, say walnut or maple, and stiffen the bracing just a tad under the saddle, make the back a little lighter/softer, does this equate to you, bright and possibly woodier, the scale is roughly 20" tuned to "A" (5th) or am I off in my calculations. I have achieved bright and chimy with this but I want to get a bit more sustain in the bass notes. I am thinking of doing off set sound holes and reducing them a bit in size . The tone woods I'll be using are cedar tops and maple for one and african blk wood for the other. All comments are welcome. |
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| Author: | Ken Mitchell [ Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How to get the sound out of a small body? |
Nehemiah, I'm just a newbie builder, but I've gotten some good advice from people here, and from the two builders I've worked with. I finished a (very) small parlor this past summer that is amazingly loud and clear. Here are the things I did, in no particular order, that may (or may not) have contributed to it's sound: WRC top built very light, 1/4" bracing, even narrower on finger braces and tone bars thinned the top around the perimeter before binding thinned the bridge plate to around .085 splayed (spread) the X-brace slightly, so that the bridge came over it by only 1/2" or so built the body very deep used a very small, lightweight bridge made the soundhole slightly larger than recommended Again, I can't say to what extent any of this contributed, but the little guitar really sings! Here are a couple of pics: |
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| Author: | ncovey [ Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How to get the sound out of a small body? |
Thanks Ken, their both beautiful, but that one on the right, what are the dimensions of the body and width. I have to keep these very small, 16 x 12 or so. I wish I could play other builders instruments, those look like fine examples. I've been thinking about sending one of my little ones to anyone that wants to try it and send feedback unbiased and objectively so I can fine tune my strategies. I might just try this soon. So much to do, so much to learn. thanks guys |
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| Author: | Ken Mitchell [ Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How to get the sound out of a small body? |
Nehemiah, The dimensions on that little parlor are 17.5" long, 13" lower bout, 9" upper bout, 24.5" scale. If you like the looks of it, you may also like this one, which is slightly larger (18.25" long, 14" LB, 9" UB, 24.9" scale), mostly in the lower bout, and which I like even better. If you would like to have tracings, let me know! |
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| Author: | ncovey [ Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How to get the sound out of a small body? |
Thanks Ken, that is a nice looking back profile, I love it when the bout bows out, (kinda looks like a womans back sitting on the edge of a bed, if you squint a little). Did you design that one too? Very nice design, parlours are probably my favorite. I would like the dimensions and radii if you could, that would be nice. My parlour is more rounded on the bottom and has a larger upper bout, I like yours more. |
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| Author: | ncovey [ Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How to get the sound out of a small body? |
Ken, the more I look at that little one on the right in the pic you showed, the more I like it. That is one sweet looking little guitar. What are the woods in it? |
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| Author: | Ken Mitchell [ Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How to get the sound out of a small body? |
Nehemiah, I can send you tracings of both, if you like. Another member asked for them, so I can just make two. The smaller one is Western Red Cedar top, mahogany back/sides, rosewood binding. Personnally, I will most likely 'tweak' the design a bit, if I make another one from that pattern. I like the larger one A LOT more, actually! (Although it came out a little 'squatty' looking in the pic). And... ah yes, the female form! Don't a lot of acoustic guitars conjure up that image?  BTW, both of these designs are take-offs of the basic Gibson L-00 pattern. Send me your snail mail address, and I'll get a couple of profile's in the mail to you. |
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