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Top And Back Bracing And Tap Tone Review via YouTube
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=19162		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Sat Oct 11, 2008 7:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Top And Back Bracing And Tap Tone Review via YouTube

Well I'm going where I think the forum hasn't gone before. Let me know what you think.
Author:  rjeffery [ Sat Oct 11, 2008 8:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Top And Back Bracing And Tap Tone Review via YouTube
What is the brand of the lubricant in the green bottle shown in the last scene, screen left?
Author:  Jody [ Sat Oct 11, 2008 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Top And Back Bracing And Tap Tone Review via YouTube
Chris, can you give us a link to that ? thanks jody
Author:  mhammond [ Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Top And Back Bracing And Tap Tone Review via YouTube
Thanks, I think it's a good idea and a great effort. I'm sure a lot of people will find your video to be helpful. The scalloping is a little hard to see, possibly a low angle, brighter light would make it easier to see the details. All in all, well done!
Mikey
Author:  ChuckH [ Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Top And Back Bracing And Tap Tone Review via YouTube
Jody wrote:
Chris, can you give us a link to that ? thanks jody


Here it is Jody. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfu5m1SaEa4
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Top And Back Bracing And Tap Tone Review via YouTube
I'm thinking of uploading a version of the video that's not compressed as it would have better quality and might help. But that will take 3 hours to upload. The green lube is a product from Denmark. ;
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Sun Oct 12, 2008 1:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Top And Back Bracing And Tap Tone Review via YouTube
Mikey,
If you click on the Link then click on " Watch In High Quality". It seems to be clearer and a better view of the braces.
Author:  Jody [ Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Top And Back Bracing And Tap Tone Review via YouTube
Thanks Chuck. Jody
Author:  Frei [ Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Top And Back Bracing And Tap Tone Review via YouTube
I think the TOP tap tone sounds good, but it looks really thin lower bout braces... One X brace doesn't go all the way to the side....

Is that a European top?
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Top And Back Bracing And Tap Tone Review via YouTube
Thanks, the short X brace will be inlayed into the beveled arm rest and the short back brace will be inlayed into the rib rest. Your the first to notice that. Are you talking about the Tone Arms? At the scallop's lowest point it's .090" and it's a .105" -.110" top. The Braces are 5/16" wide.
The top is Sitka with some bear claw and spruce braces split and cut from billets from Shane at High Mountain. The back braces are red spruce from billets from Colonial. The back and side wood is Jacaranda that was given to me. This is a somewhat practice guitar ,my first from scratch that I'm working out the ideas on.
Author:  Ennis Guitars [ Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Top And Back Bracing And Tap Tone Review via YouTube
Great job Chris, I'm a subscriber, Red
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Top And Back Bracing And Tap Tone Review via YouTube
Thanks Red.
Anyone Know if Todd Stock is out there ? Or is everyone on holiday or watching the game?
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Top And Back Bracing And Tap Tone Review via YouTube
I'm not sure if you think this is a demo or what? But it isn't, it's a question as to if the bracing looks okay or not. And if the other parts look alright to this point. The question of weather the tone arms are to thin has come up and I'm wanting to know if they are or is the measurements I gave alright.
Author:  peterm [ Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Top And Back Bracing And Tap Tone Review via YouTube
Chris,
not wanting to be critical but merely as an observation, your tone bars are too low in the middle and the peaks of the x-braces appear to be to far out, in other words too close to the edge of the soundboard which IMO would stiffen the soundboard a bit much in an area where you want more soundboard movement.
Author:  JRessler [ Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Top And Back Bracing And Tap Tone Review via YouTube
I think posting like this is a great idea, but to be honest, it took me until today to find the time to take the 5 minutes to watch the video - so the responses might be slower - more time consuming.

It is real hard to hear the resonance of the top from my computer - so I'm not sure if my comments are accurate or not. To me it seems a little heavy. I really couldn't hear a good ring in the top. Any reason for 5/16" braces? Many are using 1/4" thick braces. Visually I think the scalloping looks pretty good - but agree with Peter on the tone bars and X-brace

I like the buttresses and would be interested to see future posts from you on the adjustable neck joint as you progress with it.
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Top And Back Bracing And Tap Tone Review via YouTube
I used 5/16" braces as that's what is in my gibson j 45 and I'm building a j 45. How far from the edge should the peak of the scoop be and what is the min. heigth of the scallop for tone bars? On my J 45 plans the scoop on the X braces are 1"- 1 1/8" and that's what mine are. What are you guys shooting for? And thanks for your comments.
The tap tone to me has a pretty good ring so it might be the computer speakers.
Author:  JRessler [ Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Top And Back Bracing And Tap Tone Review via YouTube
Chris Paulick wrote:
I used 5/16" braces as that's what is in my gibson j 45 and I'm building a j 45. How far from the edge should the peak of the scoop be and what is the min. heigth of the scallop for tone bars? On my J 45 plans the scoop on the X braces are 1"- 1 1/8" and that's what mine are. What are you guys shooting for? And thanks for your comments.
The tap tone to me has a pretty good ring so it might be the computer speakers.


I don't measure how far back it is, but visually, I keep mine about an inch or more farther back than where you have yours. On the tone bar scallops, I generally don't go lower than 1/4" - This is subjective though. I used 5/16" braces at one time - still got good sound. I have evolved to 1/4" and get a much better ring to the top. I wouldn't change yours at this point, unless you have the hankering to experiment with this top. I'm sure it will sound fine.
Author:  Frei [ Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Top And Back Bracing And Tap Tone Review via YouTube
I ended up just buying a plan for the first completed one, its just easier. You still have to tweek them usually....
Author:  Steve Davis [ Fri Oct 17, 2008 2:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Top And Back Bracing And Tap Tone Review via YouTube
Could you just explain the rib rest
I havent seen that before
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Fri Oct 17, 2008 3:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Top And Back Bracing And Tap Tone Review via YouTube
Islander wrote:
Could you just explain the rib rest
I havent seen that before

There's a tutorial on the arm rest here, at least one way of doing it. The concept is that of Grit Laskin as far as I know. The ribrest as the arm rest will be routered out at a 45 drgree angle after the top is glued on. You can google Grit Laskin and get a view of them. The tricky part seems to be the binding / purfling treatment of the rest as far as I can tell and read, I guess I'll find out here shortly since I have gotten some answers to my question.
Frie, I have Mike Collins J-45 plans and they call for 1/4" braces which aren't scalloped but he mentions some before 1955 were higher and scalloped. My J-45 has scalloped braces and are 5/16", so being born in 54 and liking the tone of my Gibson J-45 I decided to go with the scalloped braces. Iy's pretty hard to see what they look like exactly with a mirror and flash light through the sound hole though. Thanks guys.
Author:  Frei [ Fri Oct 17, 2008 3:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Top And Back Bracing And Tap Tone Review via YouTube
Chris, that might be a custom job if that Gib has scalloped braces. The scallop line is pretty continuous, so you just need to figure out where the peak is, and how tall, I would say you took a bit much off, but I'm no pro. Redoing braces is not easy or quick thing either...
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Fri Oct 17, 2008 3:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Top And Back Bracing And Tap Tone Review via YouTube
My Gibson is a off the shelf J-45 that I bought in 2000. Now you're probably correct that I may have scalloped the braces different them Gibson. Like I said this is my first try at voicing a top and this is a learning experience for me. I didn't find removing the X braces too bad at all as I thought I scalloped them too low. It was pretty easy really. It may of had to do with the fact that I had no runout in the braces. Pretty much put the chisel down 1/4" and split the brace and close to the top and tap it in slightly and the brace splits pretty well to the intersection . Once all around then clean up with a sharp chisel and sand paper. I also learn through my mistakes which is part of learning I guess. Some may get upset but that's why I concider this my practice guitar. I want to practice on this one before getting to the claro and red spruce.
Author:  Robbie O'Brien [ Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Top And Back Bracing And Tap Tone Review via YouTube
Chris Paulick wrote:
I used 5/16" braces as that's what is in my gibson j 45 and I'm building a j 45. How far from the edge should the peak of the scoop be and what is the min. heigth of the scallop for tone bars? On my J 45 plans the scoop on the X braces are 1"- 1 1/8" and that's what mine are. What are you guys shooting for? And thanks for your comments.
The tap tone to me has a pretty good ring so it might be the computer speakers.



My next Luthier Tips du Jour video addresses top bracing. I just need to find the time to finish it. Anyway, this topic is like religion, politics and Brazilian football clubs...Don't mention them unless you want opinions from everyone and be ready for a bunch of different opinions.
So, to answer you question, the peak of the X brace scallop should be 3 inches in from the outer perimeter. The height of the X brace at the lap joint should be about 5/8ths. For a dred, never go lower than 3/16ths or even 1/4 at the lowest part of the tone bars. A lot of guys use 1/4 inch wide braces and a lot of guys use 5/16th wide braces. Find one that works for you. I can't really comment on the tap tone unless I have the top in hand.
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Sat Oct 18, 2008 2:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Top And Back Bracing And Tap Tone Review via YouTube
I'll be waiting to see the brace video and I hope you would explain why you choose to use those measurements. For someone to just say a measurement in this case with out an explaination doesn't give me any understanding of what is happening. It's like saying the sine of 90 degrees is 1. That does't help me understand if I know nothing about the unit circle. And I think it would be great to get a good discussion going here on bracing and all the opinions of what and the why. That's exactly what I want to hear actually. A good explaination of your, meaning all the forums members thoughts on this so I can choose from the wealth of your knowledge. I think there's alot to be said on this subject and alot to be learned from a healthly discussion on it. What Say You All? I Thirst, Will You Not Give Me Drink? :P
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Sat Oct 18, 2008 3:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Top And Back Bracing And Tap Tone Review via YouTube
I've started another discussion on the above question so please respond there on the above brace question and here on the video.
Chris
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