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Rosette bwb not even
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=19152		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Bill Higgs [ Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:57 am ]
Post subject:  Rosette bwb not even
First, thanks(Peter, Jimmy and Chris) for all the help with using shellac and CA to inlay abalone in the rosette. It really does work great.
If you don't mind, I need a little more guidance.
I am very pleased with the result I got except for the bwb purfling. It appears just a little uneven (width-wise) as you look at it closer around the rosette. This is a very narrow bwb strip (0.036") and I assume is wood. It almost looks like the black portion has swollen in places. Do you think this is what happened? Do I need to coat the bwb purfling with shellac?
Are there plastic bwb purfling strips this size that I could use?
Anyway, thanks again.

Bill

PS - Chris the beautiful bwb you showed in your initial response is what I am after.
Author:  Don Williams [ Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rosette bwb not even
The black is fiber, (fibre?) and that seems to be a problem a lot of folks have with the stuff. It may be a combination of a slightly too large slot, and possibly a problem associated with sanding pressure. It can be a real pain.
Author:  Jody [ Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rosette bwb not even
Bill ,plastic strips are available, maybe someone here can help you with a source, I bought a bunch on a 'close-out" off ebay. that is some very nice looking shell. may I ask where you acquired it ? thanks Jody
Author:  Colin S [ Sat Oct 11, 2008 11:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rosette bwb not even
When sanding it, assuming it's fibre, it often flattens and spreads over on top of the surrounding spruce rahter than being sanded off. Thus it will give the appeaence of becoming wider. This can usually be solved by using a scraper rather than sanding, though care has to be taken not to score the spruce with the scraper corners, so a scaper with radiused corners is safer, I have used a razor blade with radiused corners in the past with success for this very job of cleaning up a rosette's purfling. I now only use wood purflings.


Colin
Author:  Hesh [ Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rosette bwb not even
Not all commercially available purflings are created equally......

I have some here that fortunately I remembered to put through the micrometer prior to using. I found as much as .012 variance in the thickness that would be enough to cause a noticeable mismatch at an intersection of two purfs.

Mic your purflings if you can remember to do so - it may save a re-do someday.
Author:  stan thomison [ Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rosette bwb not even
I use the stuff all the time. I scrape the rosette area. The less I can sand with abrasive in that area the better. Another thing do is not take the top to final thickness prior to inlay. I make the channels a little deeper so when inlay the stuff is just a little below surface of top. I then sand lightly to it and then take rest off the back. This stuff can vary in width a little +/- so I use calipers on it so get it where little tight inlaying it. Just stuff learn as you use it and build. There are I know other ways, just works best for me and way taught. One thing in the channel route, better be a little tight than a little large as that is whole set of other problems. I know probably going over board here, but another thing is with sanding, one can sand through one of the fibers and then have b/w/b, b/w, bwb. So want to set it in even and with sanding can do to much going after it if not careful. I had one I just had to scrap a few years ago and found the inlay had gotten to then at about .010 in the channel and there wasn't much there. Heck of an expensive lesson. This may not make sense so sorry if not explaining right
Author:  Mike Collins [ Sat Oct 11, 2008 1:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rosette bwb not even
All the above advise is on the money!

But make sure the tools or jigs you use to rout the channel does not have a wobble or out of round problem.
Also go slow when routing a rose channel so as not to rip out the soft fibers of the top.


Mike
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Sat Oct 11, 2008 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rosette bwb not even
Part of this is usually unevenness in the width of the channel. Besides the purfling spreading out a bit, glue filler alongside black will look black.
Author:  Bill Higgs [ Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rosette bwb not even
Thanks everyone for the replies. I will try to make sure the circle is tight with no wobble and I will check the width of the purflings. Also, will judiciously use the scraper.
Jody, I go the abalone shell from Hana Lima Ia ( It is only 3" inside diameter).

Bill
Author:  peterm [ Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rosette bwb not even
Great job on this rosette!
I agree with Howard and Colin on this....maybe a combination of both. Fiber does tend to flatten over the side and look like its wider but its really not. lightly scrapping it with a razor blade may remove the extra overlap and take care of it.
Author:  Martin Turner [ Mon Oct 13, 2008 4:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rosette bwb not even
I usually try and avoid sanding rosettes, preferring to work with a scraper if I can.
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rosette bwb not even
Colin S wrote:
When sanding it, assuming it's fibre, it often flattens and spreads over on top of the surrounding spruce rahter than being sanded off. Thus it will give the appeaence of becoming wider. This can usually be solved by using a scraper rather than sanding, though care has to be taken not to score the spruce with the scraper corners, so a scaper with radiused corners is safer, I have used a razor blade with radiused corners in the past with success for this very job of cleaning up a rosette's purfling. I now only use wood purflings.


Colin


Bingo Colin hit this one out of the park. Heat froms sanding will cause the black to flatten out more than glue will cause it to swel. It will even lay so flat that you tink you are to the spruce level but in fact ther is a less than paper thin fold over of the black fiber that haeat has bonded to the top almost like srink wrap. One spot on the first photo has such a place. It is much much cleaner to inlay the bwb purfling just a couple thousants proud of the top and scrape back. It is really less work as well.
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rosette bwb not even
Glad you posted the question? All great answers. What I also do is. Being that it's pretty hard to cut the strips .050" high(well at least for me) and they are a bit proud of the channel, before gluing I'll cut the proud part down pretty level with the top with a chisel or scraper or razor blade. It all depends on how high it is. I also like to try and get the shell a little low so that the CA covers it and doesn't sand into it. I also run the top through the thickness sander to level the rosette. I've been trying to get the channel snug so that the shell and purfling fits easily since I lay the strips and the shell in at one time and the b/w/b/ are not glued up together. That's why I like to cut the proud part down before gluing to make sure that all of the purfling is in the channel and one didn't come out. If it did then I can fix it. Don't ask me how I know. :| This job has been made easier since I made the Wells/ Karol router base and I made my shell cutting jig. I can route the channel and then tweak my shell to fit alot easier.
Author:  Bill Higgs [ Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rosette bwb not even
Hey, thanks everybody. Here is my latest attempt at the shell rosette with more even bwb purfling. I thinks the main culprit before was a little slop and extra width in the channel. This time I proceeded much slower with the routing and also took off smaller incremental bites. I am very pleased with the improvement. Once again everybody ---- Thanks.

Bill
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