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Ladder Braced Guitar Plans: A Proposal
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=18510		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Glenn LaSalle [ Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:42 am ]
Post subject:  Ladder Braced Guitar Plans: A Proposal
Hi Folks,

One day, I would like to build some ladder braced guitars. However, while finding some info on them, I have not been able to find any guitar plans as of yet.

As a player, I own several vintage ladder braced guitars (and have bought and sold several others). I currently own:
- 1920/30 Stella Concert guitar
- 1920's Joseph Nettuno 26.25" scale Grand Concert (This instrument is most likely the product of the same shop that made the hand-built Galianos (some Galianos were factory Schmidt instruments, sold through the same shop). "Galiano" was the house brand of a small shop in NYC, owned and operated by John D'Angelico's great uncle, Raphael Ciani and Antonio Cerrito.Mine has the Joseph Nettuno Sticker inside)

I have owned other Stella guitars, both Grand Concert and concert. So far, I can say that the Joseph Nettunno is simply an outstanding guitar (and very rare) - much better than my long scale Stellas (which is why I sold them).

My Proposal: In the interests of some day producing a similar guitar of my own, I would be open to shipping either the Joseph Nettunno Grand Concert and/or the Stella Concert to somebody to measure, etc and create guitar plans (even take the top off of that helps and doesnt hurt the guitars).

Catch: If anybody is interested, I would like a copy of the plans :D and also make the plans availble to the OLF plan library (assuming it ever opens back up).

If there is no interest, no problem - I just was driving this morning and thinking it would be a great idea, and figured I would post it here.

Thanks for listening!

Some picture of the Joseph Nettunno are on an old web page of mine here:

http://home.comcast.net/~fingerstyleguitar/index.htm

One other side note. A number of years ago, in my obsession with the great British Fingerstyle guitarist Bert Jansch, I created this web site with a bunch of transcriptions I have done, and a bunch more that were donated to me over the years. I have not had time to work in this in years, and will most likely pull the web site soon. If anybody likes this type of music, check it out and download the transcriptions before I pull the page.

Glenn
Author:  jack [ Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ladder Braced Guitar Plans: A Proposal
Glenn,
I would like to buy a set of either guitar's plans if you get the details worked out; Over the years I have had several old Stellas; none old enough to have a slot peghead, mostly late 40's or early 50's; they have all been soild birch construction, ladder braced, and with a little work, all made good guitars.
Hope someone takes you up on the offer,
best wishes,
jack
Author:  Ken Franklin [ Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ladder Braced Guitar Plans: A Proposal
John How might be interested in this project. Give him a PM.
Author:  jhowell [ Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ladder Braced Guitar Plans: A Proposal
I would also be interested in purchasing a set of these plans. I believe that Michael Payne has drawn several of the existing plan sets and he may be a good resource to contact.
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ladder Braced Guitar Plans: A Proposal
I have a chain saw and a ruler! :D
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Sun Aug 24, 2008 1:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ladder Braced Guitar Plans: A Proposal
Can you post a few photos of the Nettuno?
Author:  Glenn LaSalle [ Sun Aug 24, 2008 1:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ladder Braced Guitar Plans: A Proposal
Howard Klepper wrote:
Can you post a few photos of the Nettuno?


Here are some that I already had on my computer. If you want any particular shot, let me know. I should add that the top was refinished before i got the guitar, and that the guitar absolutely sings with a bottleneck!!

Dimensions:
Lower Bout: 14 7/8"
Upper Bout: 10 5/8"
Length of Body: 20 3/8"
Across Waist: 9"
Depth at neck: 3 1/2"
Depth at End Block: 3 7/8"
Depth at Waist: 3 3/4"

Attachment:
JN.JPG


Attachment:
JN Top.jpg


Attachment:
JN Back.jpg


Attachment:
JN Label.jpg


Attachment:
JN Side.jpg


Thx!

Glenn
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ladder Braced Guitar Plans: A Proposal
Very cool guitar. Appears to have had the neck reset.
Author:  John Lewis [ Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ladder Braced Guitar Plans: A Proposal
I would love to have access and/or plans of your 1985 Franklin Prairie State too. I had the chance to play one of John Greven's Prairie State guitars and it was wonderful. It's like an OM on steroids.

You have a great collection of acoustics - I like all of them. I hope someone with enough experience can make detailed plans that can be offered to us all.
Author:  Glenn LaSalle [ Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ladder Braced Guitar Plans: A Proposal
John Lewis wrote:
I would love to have access and/or plans of your 1985 Franklin Prairie State too. I had the chance to play one of John Greven's Prairie State guitars and it was wonderful. It's like an OM on steroids.

You have a great collection of acoustics - I like all of them. I hope someone with enough experience can make detailed plans that can be offered to us all.


Funny you say that. I am working on guitar #1 (OM). Guitar 2 for me will be an L-00. Guitar 3 will be the Prairie State. It is an unbelievable guitar. I ordered mine from Nick right after playing Stefan Grossman's (I used to take lessons with Stefan in the '80's).

I live in South New Jersey, outside of Philadelphia. I would love to have anybody on the forum stop by and check out any of the guitars. (who knows, maybe you will luck out on one of my slow BBQ smoked Brisket days :-).

Thx!

Glenn
Author:  Wes McMillian [ Sun Aug 24, 2008 7:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ladder Braced Guitar Plans: A Proposal
New Jersey and brisket in the same paragraph wow7-eyes ! Sorry, that just doesn't compute in this Texas brain! gaah laughing6-hehe

I went to Syracuse, NY a couple of years ago and the locals talked me into trying the brisket at a local BBQ joint they were proud of. I tried to be gentle when they asked me what I thought... eek

But, seriously, I would be extremely interested in plans for a Prairie State as well as the others.
Author:  Glenn LaSalle [ Mon Aug 25, 2008 5:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ladder Braced Guitar Plans: A Proposal
westex93 wrote:
New Jersey and brisket in the same paragraph wow7-eyes ! Sorry, that just doesn't compute in this Texas brain! gaah laughing6-hehe


Hehe, well, I do have relatives in Austin... maybe it is brisket by osmosis :-)

The prairie state design is fantastic, in my opinion. It is a jumbo shaped guitar (17" across bottom), but has the depth of an OM. I first played one of Stefan Grossman's in ~ '84 ... and ordered one for myself the next week! I think Franklin's from this time period are exceptional instruments (I have played many), and my OM from this time period (with BRW cut in '65) is the standard by which I measure OM guitars (of course, I have not had the pleasure of playing every OM out there :-) )

My goals for building are to build guitars that i want (and hopefully get good enough that they sound good :-) ). My next guitar is going to be an L-00 - I had a 1938 L-00 that I thought was great, but had to sell a number of years back. The Prairie State is next. I have all the dimensions, as I have the guitar - I have been looking inside at the bracing and will try to get as much info as possible. After that, I really want to build the Ladder braced guitar - and hence subject of this email. I love the old Stellas - best bottleneck guitars I have played (and yes, when I say this, National fans do get upset ;-) ). I have conversed with some other Joseph Nettuno owners (actually, 1 other), and we both agree these are superior to the Oscar Schmidt Stellas ... which is all subjective of course :-).

Anyway, my offer still stands - for the ladder braced guitars. My Franklin PS is currently my "everyday" guitar, so I would rather not ship that out - but it is certainly available here for inspection, etc.

Thanks all, and apologize for my rambling!

Glenn
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ladder Braced Guitar Plans: A Proposal
glasalle wrote:


Catch: If anybody is interested, I would like a copy of the plans :D and also make the plans availble to the OLF plan library (assuming it ever opens back up).



Glenn



Unfortunately (sorta anyway) The OLF Library of Plans is a thing of the past. It turned into to much of a headache for Lance and Brock. They had issues keeping a printer that could produce to scale prints from DWFs or PDFs. (I don’t know why but they did)

I believe Brock is working on a different venue to make plans available other than mine.

Now Lance Brock and I also have something in the works on my plans. But it will be a bit yet before I can say what. But I will say that it still will benefit the forum even better than it did in the past.
Author:  Joe Sustaire [ Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ladder Braced Guitar Plans: A Proposal
Wow Glenn,

Your Nettuno sure looks like a great guitar. I'm a big fan of ladder braced guitars and agree with you, I think bottleneck sounds better on them than on nationals. I have both and love them all, but the stella types just seem to fit the music a little better to me. I'm on my 5th and 6th builds now, a pair of Ditson grand concerts and I'm making one with x-bracing and the other is ladder braced. I'm following John Howe's bracing plan on the ladder one. These have sister tops and same macasser mahogany back and sides. I have both ladder and x-braced guitars but there are so many other variables involved. Hopefully this will let me truly see how the bracing difference affects the sound.
My second build was a long scale, grand concert size 12 string, ladder-braced. I was very pleased with the way it turned out.

I'm down in Oklahoma, hopefully you can find someone locally to study your guitar and make drawings, I would love to have a copy also. I would be very hesitant to let anyone take off the top though.

My 2 cents, thanks for sharing this,
Joe
Author:  Glenn LaSalle [ Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ladder Braced Guitar Plans: A Proposal
MichaelP wrote:
Now Lance Brock and I also have something in the works on my plans. But it will be a bit yet before I can say what. But I will say that it still will benefit the forum even better than it did in the past.


Hi Michael, any update you can share with us on this?

Thx!

Glenn
Author:  Cotton [ Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ladder Braced Guitar Plans: A Proposal
Glenn,
I am a new member to this forum, and I am currently tooling up for my first build(Grit Laskin designed dreadnought). I use Autocad for all my woodworking designs, and might be able to help you out! Two concerns, I live in California, and the only way to get accurate measurements of the bracing would be to open up the guitar(By a professional). Below is my email if your interested, and we can talk.

L_COTTON@SBCGLOBAL.NET

Cotton
Author:  charliewood [ Sat Sep 13, 2008 2:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ladder Braced Guitar Plans: A Proposal
I too would be interested in these plans as a ladder braced instrument is in the long term plans..
I have a ladder braced guitar (Joseph Obrecht) which is very old and in need of restoration, and it had a very pleasant sound (before I retired it) even in its delapidated state,,, Im a fan of the sound of LB instruments anyhow...
Cheers
Charlie
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