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Flooding ziricote
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=17220		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  mhammond [ Fri May 16, 2008 10:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Flooding ziricote
Good evening:
I recently was lucky enough to obtain a beautiful ziricote back and side set. Out of respect for some of mother natures best work I started researching using this wood in the archives. Due to the cracking issuses several members recommended flooding the wood with CA. I have three questions; Do I flood before bending of after? Do I flood the back also? And finally does the CA make finishing any more difficult (splotchy)?

Thanks in admiration of the amazing amount of knowledge accumulated amongst the members!
Author:  Hesh [ Fri May 16, 2008 11:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Flooding ziricote
I have not done this so take it for what you paid for it...... But what I recall from the many posts on this over the years here is that you flood before bending. Also from one side is fine and the excess sands off.

Lastly, and important, do it outside or with plenty of fresh air since you will be using a lot of CA. A respirator is a good idea too.
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Sat May 17, 2008 5:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Flooding ziricote
A respirator is not just a good idea--it's the law!

I've built a few with ziricote and used it for various parts. i would not flood it with CA and doubt that this would make much difference to whether a given piece will crack.
Author:  Don Williams [ Sat May 17, 2008 7:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Flooding ziricote
A lot of well-respected builders do this with Brazilian, so I'm not sure why you wouldn't have the same results with the Mexican Crackwood.

Essentially, what you're trying to do is stabilize the micro-fine cracks that are in the wood. Can't see them? Well then all you have to do is wet the wood on one side with naptha and any micro-cracks should allow the liquid to go through to the other side. If you don't stabilize these cracks, once you've stressed the back or sides by bracing to a 25' radius or bending, those hairline fractures are going to find a way to open up. Unfortunately, the time they usually do it is after the finish is on and the instrument is strung up...
Pay close attention to any really dark "ink" lines in Ziricote. In my experience, they seem to have a natural weakness to them.

There are CA glues out there with less fume issues. I'm not sure if they work as well, having never tried them. Definitely do this outside if you try it, and use a squeegee or something to work the CA around. Use the thinnest CA you can find so that it finds its way into those really fine cracks. You'll want to leave the wood thick when you do this, and sand it back so that the CA doesn't interfere with the finish.
Author:  Kim [ Sat May 17, 2008 8:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Flooding ziricote
Can always rely on the Don for great advice. [:Y:]

Thanks for that M8

Cheers

Kim
Author:  Don Williams [ Sat May 17, 2008 8:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Flooding ziricote
larkim wrote:
Can always rely on the Don for great advice. [:Y:]




heh heh.....little do they know....

:twisted:
Author:  Kim [ Sat May 17, 2008 8:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Flooding ziricote
Don Williams wrote:
larkim wrote:
Can always rely on the Don for great advice. [:Y:]




heh heh.....little do they know....

:twisted:



What's that Don? That you are the largest share holder in the single biggest CA manufacturing plant in the northern hemisphere. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Cheers

Kim
Author:  Brock Poling [ Sat May 17, 2008 9:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Flooding ziricote
Don Williams wrote:
Essentially, what you're trying to do is stabilize the micro-fine cracks that are in the wood. Can't see them? Well then all you have to do is wet the wood on one side with naptha and any micro-cracks should allow the liquid to go through to the other side. .


Uh... that isn't why you see naptha on the other side.

Wood cells are like drinking straws. The naptha simply runs through them to the other side -- particularly if there is a lot of run out in the wood. Now if you see a long clearly defined line of naptha on the other side... that I would agree is a crack, but simply being wet on the other side does NOT mean it has micro cracks.

Also, on qulited woods (recalling sapele here) there is so much short grain that the naptha almost runs THROUGH the wood.
Author:  fryovanni [ Sat May 17, 2008 10:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Flooding ziricote
I do use CA before bending sides an also do the same for the back. It is an attempt at stabalizing the microfractures that you cant see, a small amount of naptha wiped on one side will show the ones that go all the way through, some may not make it all the way through, and may be less obvious. I usually have to keep checking and watching for cracks that may appear all the way through the building process(I just wick in CA if I spot one). If you use a lot of CA, take it outside or in an extreamly well ventalated area, and wear a respirator.

Rich
Author:  Don Williams [ Sat May 17, 2008 11:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Flooding ziricote
Brock Poling wrote:
Don Williams wrote:
Essentially, what you're trying to do is stabilize the micro-fine cracks that are in the wood. Can't see them? Well then all you have to do is wet the wood on one side with naptha and any micro-cracks should allow the liquid to go through to the other side. .

Now if you see a long clearly defined line of naptha on the other side... that I would agree is a crack, but simply being wet on the other side does NOT mean it has micro cracks.


[uncle]
Well, yes....if you want to go getting all technical, (dang Brock, you're almost as bad as me!) that's exactly what I meant.
You will see the hairline fractures showing up as long wet lines. Exactly what I meant. But....if you see moisture getting through easily, it does show that there is a potential weakness in that area in straight grained wood, or very deep pores...and if those pores are long and deep, then they represent what *could be* a location for a future stress crack. Fill it with CA, and most of the worries about it can go away...
Author:  Kevin Gallagher [ Mon May 19, 2008 11:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Flooding ziricote
If you use the right temperature on your bending blankets and take your time you should not have a problem with Zircote. I wouldn't recommend doing the CA soak. The cleanup is a lot of work and the CA gives out under the heat of the bender anyway.

If you're bending by hand on an iron, take your time and run it at the appropriate temperature.....and there's no need to keep Zircote very wet during banding either.

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars
Author:  SniderMike [ Mon May 19, 2008 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Flooding ziricote
I can't even imagine the fumes that a CA-soaked side would put off when heated in a bender. [xx(] [xx(] [xx(] [xx(] [xx(]
Author:  Don Williams [ Mon May 19, 2008 12:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Flooding ziricote
Yeah, I wouldn't soak the sides either, just do some general stabilizing of any hidden hairline fractures. Believe it or not, I did this and then put the slats through the bender without the CA letting go...
I would reserve the flooding for backs, and it's not always necessary.

Then again, I don't call it Mexican Crackwood for nothing.
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Mon May 19, 2008 12:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Flooding ziricote
I have been flooding Ziricote back and sides with thin CA every since my second set. It fills the pores and micro fractures well. I do both sides allow to cure for a couple days, scrape level and a cursory drum sanding with 120 grit.

Yes there are fumes when bending but a respirator and goggles takes care of that. Actually there is less fumes from cured CA when heated than from wet CA. It is not a perfect solution but does help prevent splitting. plus really reduces pore filling. Heck I have recently gone to CA pore filling on most every thing anyway.
Author:  Ed Haney [ Wed Nov 24, 2010 5:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Flooding with CA
Great older thread here for the ongoing CA flooding discussion.

Ed
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