Official Luthiers Forum!

We have some gift cards that we need to use and my wife says I can use them!!!!

So, for a small shop that will do instruments as well as cabinets....What would you do?

P.S. Isn't she great!!

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Steve Walden
Aspiring Builder,
Bartlesville, OK

Steve, don't know if this is an option for you or not, but if I were looking at getting an open ended drum sander I'd also look at the 18" from Grizzly 18" 1-1/2 HP Grizzly drum sander

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My Facebook Guitar Page

"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

i read all of the poor reports of both the 10-20 and the 16-32, but ended up getting the 10-20 for a few reasons. 1) its just a little cheaper, but hey, this craft is getting really expensive. 2) it made sense to me that the shorter drum would be better suppoted than something longer since it is an open ended sander. 3) with the 16-32, anything larger than an OM was probably going to get two passes anyways.

so far (im about half of a guitar deep in using it), i couldnt be happier. a lot of the complaints of these machines are about making and keeping adjustments. IMHO, any machine you buy (i own several larger machines) is going to require adjustments from the factory and subsequent adjustments over time. so getting things set up properly was no surprise to me, in fact i planned on it. that being said, you do have to keep a watchful eye on the conveyor tracking. but no big deal.

not sure how much cabinetry you do and how much that is going to influence you decision, but i would go with the 10-20.

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sweat the small stuff.

Rod - Thanks for the Grizzley tip. I think I will wait till I can afford one that wil meet my cabinet needs as well as guitar needs. An 16" or larger sander will be, for me, the best bet. The gift cards are at Sears so I was looking at buying from them as they carry Jet on the web only. But, alas, they are charging shipping of $190 that kills the deal for me. Amazon only wants $850 for the 10-20 delivered. Sears on sale was $899..............+ the shipping. Not a good deal.

Anyway, I am going to wait till I can afford what I need.

Heath - We must have been typing at the same time! Thanks for the tip. Keep Visalia happy!

Thanks again,

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Steve Walden
Aspiring Builder,
Bartlesville, OK

Steve buddy I want to echo what our friend Heath said and add a few other things too.

Prior to purchasing my 10-20 I too read some problematic reports from owners who did not have a positive experience. But I bought mine any way and here is what I found out first hand.

My machine was set-up dead nuts accurate right out of the box....... Even though I have checked it several times, because I have no life....., it has remained dead-nuts/spot-on/right-on accurate for the couple of years that I have had the pleasure of using it.

Double-pass sanding is no problem at all and the sometimes reported ridge that I have read about has never happened to me. The feed belt wanting to move to the right is something that mine does too but I have yet to see this hurt anything so I just leave it to the right where it wants to go. Live and let live I say.....

The thing to know about the Performax or Delta drum sanders is that they are not intended to be used to hoark off copious amounts of material in a single pass. I typically turn my crank, on the machine please......, no more then 1/8th of a turn at once and that removes around .005 of material at once. I also find that running the material through a second time without touching the crank can remove .001 - .002 additional material.

So, with this said, I make a number of passes and sneak up on the thickness that I want. What results is accuracy within .002 anywhere on the plate. And that is good enough for me.

Lastly, the circuit breaker on the 10-20 is also known to trip fairly easily and in my shop, a very small former bedroom, the service was not sufficient to have the Performax on with the Festool, and air cleaner, and then the dehumidifier cycles on. My work around was a very short 6" heavy duty extension cord for the Performax and I plug it into another circuit in the bathroom across the hall.

All in all I love my 10-20 and would not even trade it for a new 16-32 if I had the opportunity. It also takes up little space and can be hefted off and on a shelf for storage.

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Ann Arbor Guitars

Aren't wives wonderful? I guess she now knows where you will be at any given time. I am pleased to agree that the sander I received (Delta 18-36) is also set up accuratley right out of the box. It didn't come in until mid january. One evening she arrived home from work with the thing in the back of her truck! I think it covers Christmas and BDs for 2007 thru 2010!

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Greg
http://garibaldiinstruments.com/

Boy Hesh, that must be a small space you work in if a 6 inch cord will reach to the bathroom! Although there could be a certain efficiency of "operations"...
Any more my wife just rolls her eyes.
-C

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Freeborn Guitars
and home of BeauGuard©

steve, maybe you meant amazon wants $850 for the 16-32? because the 10-20 is only $580 delivered. a heck of a deal if you ask me! and this is probably the most beautiful time of the year in visalia. everything is green and in bloom. plus the mountains still have snow on them, which makes for a great back drop.

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sweat the small stuff.

Steve - I have the 16-32 and I also do cabinets and guitars - I love mine. it came set up completely accurate, and I have had NO problems with it whatsoever. I use it all the time...great purchase.

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Mitch

I just purchased the 10 20....and delta 12" disc sander.....and the delta boss sander.

My 10 20 was perfect right out of the box...but the feed belt has a mind of it's own....and I am okay with that.

I think that people, generally speaking, are picky jerks with only themselves on their mind...and they forget that EVERYTHING has a human element to it...therefore....sometimes...inaccuracies.
Don't worry about the 10 20....if it doesn't work the way you think it should....tweak it until it's fixed...if you can't fix it....Jet's customer service is pretty good from what I hear.

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There is no difference between the man that thinks he can....and the man that thinks he cannot.

I have a 16/32. After running plenty of stock through it over the years I am happy, happy, happy with it. I have not touched the feed belt in probably 3 years or so (and the feed belt has never been an issue). Most people that I know who have a 16/32, and have used it for several years have had the same results I have had. These are great tools, accurate workhorses. I am considering an upgrade, for one reason only, I want more capacity.

Rich

I am thinking about buying a woodmaster 718 with the drum sanding attatchment. Does anyone know if this can be used for sanding thin stock (ie: tops and backs)? Thanks in advance for any insights.

Ben

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- Ben Pak
North Wales, Pa.

Howdy fellow wood coercers! Thanks everyone for the recommendations on the sanding decision. I think I will get the 16/32 soon.

Ben - I looked at the Woodmaster as well. They keep sending me literature! It looks like a great machine, very versatile. You should look at the minimum thickness the sanding drum can handle. If it is not in the 1/8th range you may have to use a sled to hold the work piece. Also, you may need 240 V service.

Thanks again everyone for the help!

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Steve Walden
Aspiring Builder,
Bartlesville, OK

I have both a 10-20 and a 16-32 I have had good service from both. Any sand3er will need some fine tuning. The only thing I had to adjust on both was the belt feed alignment and I too have not had to touch either for well over a year. Once you have the feed alignment set, unless you try to hog material it should stay set. The real issue with the Jet or Peformax is learning the to load the paper. if you choose the 10-20 and want to sand a joined top having a backer board carriage is important to prevent sanding a edge into the board at the outboard side of the drum. That is the only reason I bought a 16-32,but if you understand why it happens then it is easy enough to avoid with the 10-20.

Just personal opinion the bad reviews of the 10-20 come from users trying to sand too much material off with a machine that is designed to be a finish sander and from users that don’t really understand how the feed belt adjustment system works. It is not an industrial material hog. It was never meant to be one.

As far as accuracy my 10-20 will hold + or -.002 across the full width day in and day out, pretty much equal to the 16-32. Providing I don’t try to hog off material.

I purchased a 10-20 2 months ago, on sale at Rockler for $490. The conveyor belt tracking takes some time to break in, as others have pointed out. No big deal, one needs to keep an eye on it (I ruined the 1st belt that came with the sander…).
One needs a powerful shopvac with clean filter, or better a good dust collector, as the small drum tends to heat and then the paper clogs, and then…
It's a very accurate little machine, by taking a few passes at the same setting with 80 or 120grit, and alternating the feed, I can get to .001" accuracy with patience. Not that it matters in real life…
Loaded with 24grit paper it can hog off a fair amount (.010"/.015" per pass depending on the wood), but it's not a planer…

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

Another vote for the 16/32. Have had mine for 2 years. No major problems after setup. Mine did blow the circuit board in the belt feed right away but the replacement has worked fine.
Terry

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

I have the Performax 10/20, too, and it is a nice machine. Never had any tracking problems. Like others have said, as long as you take the time to set it up right it will give you no problems.

I bought the 10/20 over the 16/32 for space reasons, but also because I figure anything guitar width would need two passes on even the 16/32 model.

Their website says it can sand down to 5/16 with out the bed board. I talked to them today, and they said with the bed board it should be able to sand down to almost 0! I also talked to a friend of mine who has a 725, he agreed. I've had one on layaway for about a month, so I finalized my order today. Hopefully it will work out.

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- Ben Pak
North Wales, Pa.