Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 3:37 pm


All times are UTC - 5 hours


Forum rules


Be nice, no cussin and enjoy!




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Orpharion Plan
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:45 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 10:53 pm
Posts: 2198
Location: Hughenden Valley, England
Perusing the MIMF sent me to the Renaissance Cittern Site and this page on the Orpharion built by in London by Francis Palmer in 1617, and held in the Collection of Musikmuseet, Musikhistorisk Museum & Carl Claudius’ Samling, Copenhagen, Denmark. This is an interesting instrument as it is a very early example of a fan-fretted instrument with a bass string length of 601.5mm and a treble string length of 518.5mm:

Image

Even more interestimg is that a technical drawing and a report on the condition of the Palmer orpharion by Darryl Martin are available for free as PDF downloads, courtesy of the Musikhistorisk Museum of Copenhagen, Denmark. There are also links on the site to articles about the instrument and it's construction.

This is a very cool and interesting instrument that yet again demonstrates that there is little in modern "innovation" that is truly new. Maybe we should have an OLF Orpharion Making Competition.

_________________
Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Orpharion Plan
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 5:34 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 7:29 am
Posts: 3840
Location: England
I hope they paid Novax his license fee! Nothing is new is it Dave, virtually all of the 'modern' developments in instruments can be found in one form or another in museum specimens. Robert Smith at Timberline, made a really nice Orpharion back in the 70s I believe. This might be a logical instrument for me to have a go at.

Colin

_________________
I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Orpharion Plan
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 6:25 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2005 7:58 pm
Posts: 2946
Location: United States
Colin S wrote:
I hope they paid Novax his license fee!
Colin


laughing6-hehe laughing6-hehe laughing6-hehe
They'd need a time machine to collect on that one!

Wow! What a great TV show "Time Attorneys"!! Ambulance Chasers through history! :D

_________________
Billy Dean Thomas
Covina, CA

"Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur."
(Many fear their reputation, few their conscience)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Orpharion Plan
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:03 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 1:50 am
Posts: 952
Location: United States
Dave are all opharions fan fretted, as far as you know? Count me in on the contest if I can do straight frets. That fan thing intimidates me.

John


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Orpharion Plan
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:06 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 7:29 am
Posts: 3840
Location: England
John Kinnaird wrote:
Dave are all opharions fan fretted, as far as you know? Count me in on the contest if I can do straight frets. That fan thing intimidates me.

John



John, I've only seen half a dozen or so and I did do a minor repair on one, but yes every orpharion I've ever seen is fan fretted.

Colin

_________________
I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Orpharion Plan
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:41 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 10:53 pm
Posts: 2198
Location: Hughenden Valley, England
John,

It's not that hard to do. It's actually harder to describe in words. Basically the string length down the middle of the fretboard is the average of the outer strings - in this case 560mm. You then work out which fret needs to be perpendicular like "normal" frets - this looks to be the 4th fret. You then work out the fretboard width, taper and the edge relationship to the outer strings and draw in the 4th fret perpendicular to the centre line of the fretboard and measure forward along the centre line 115.52mm (4th fret position on 560mm scale length) and mark this pont as the nut edge on the centre line, and then mark out all of the fret positions along the centre line for a 560mm scale. Then draw in the outer strings along the fretboard. Measure from where the 4th fret crosses the bass string, along the bass string line 124.08mm (4th fret position on the 601.5mm scale length) towards the nut and mark this as the bass string nut edge. Do the same on the treble string measuring 106.96mm (4th fret position on the 518.5mm scale length) and this gives you the treble string nut edge. Now using the 4th fret as a reference you mark out the fret positions along the two outer strings. Join up the dots (and marvel at how they meet the dots you marked along the centre-line) and you have the fretboard marked out for cutting the fret slots.

_________________
Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Orpharion Plan
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 6:44 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:51 am
Posts: 3786
Location: Canada
Nice description Dave of how to recreate the multiscale fretboard (Fan%$#T is a reg copyright of Novax, thats why i dont use it). Nice to know the idea is 400 years old ....Anyway ... here is a much simpler way.

Go here, http://www.fretfind.ekips.org/2d/index.php , and fill 'er out, then print and line up the pages ... I do them as lefty FBs, then glue to the back of the FB blank and proceed to cut on the table saw .... Thanks to Rollo Scheurenbrand for enlightening me on this site ... saves a couple hours of layout time. Its as accurate as I can do by hand as well.

_________________
Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: John Steele, Mike Collins, stumblin and 57 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com