Official Luthiers Forum!

Hey, guys. I'm curious to know if anyone has tried or uses a table saw from SawStop. It's the one that's supposed to have that safety feature to make sure you don't chop your fingers off by accident. I read somewhere that despite this feature, not too many people use these saws so I'm wondering if there's some sort of reason for that. Does it fall somewhere in function, precision, or build quality?

Michael buddy I did a search on SawStop because I know we have discussed these saws before and here is a link to the results: http://luthiersforum.com/forum/search.php?keywords=SawStop&terms=all&author=&fid%5B%5D=10102&sc=1&sf=all&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&st=0&ch=200&t=0&submit=Search

I had the impression that these are great saws but cost was the primary down side - for now.

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Ann Arbor Guitars

Schools have been purchasing the Saw Stop for the last couple years. We purchased one at East High here in Madison when I was there. It is a high quality machine, but its expense is the main problem for a small shop situation. Liability wise, it is a great savings, as it did save one finger or portion thereof last year. It costs a little over $100.00 to reload it after an emergency stop.

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Ken Bremer
Madison, Wisconsin
http://www.bremerguitar.blogspot.com

I realize that cost can be an issue, but at the same time, I would really like to keep all 10 of my fingers.. ^^;; I cannot express how much I'd like to keep all of my fingers. But yeah... Regarding the $100 cost to reset after an emergency braking, does the saw ever brake for no reason and lead to needless extra expenses? I think an emergency braking system when a finger comes into contact with the saw is great, but it'd be annoying to have the thing start braking for no reason...

I looked into this saw last year and I'm a fan of the idea. When the cabinet saw comes out, I'll probably get one. $100 for every time the saw fires is cheap compared to a trip to the ER. Heck, I've spoken to people who have lost fingers in power tools and asked them if they would get a machine that completely destroyed itself in the process of stopping and they all said it would still be a good deal.

False triggers are the major concern with this tool. It has a few features that help prevent it. One, is that it doesn't happen often at all. One tester tried to get it to fire and ended up doing it on a piece of pressure treated wood that had been completely soaked through in the rain. Anything less than that and it didn't fire. The other feature is that you can touch the material that you are cutting to the blade before you power it up and a light will indicate that it is OK to cut. There is an override switch for materials that conduct like foil backed foam insulation.

The one case that is likely to happen is the staple that the operator failed to notice. When the blade contacts the staple it may short the blade to the saw top and cause a misfire.

Replacing the blade and cartridge is only a few minutes work. I'd keep one in on hand so that I'm only out the $100 and not the day's work as well.

It is also my understanding that blades under 10" can not be used on the saw. i.e. the ones we use for fret slotting, making kerfing, etc.

Fantastic machine. I love mine.
You can run 10" or 8" blades with the dado cartridge.
-C

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Freeborn Guitars
and home of BeauGuard©

I have one I have barely started using. The manual says that the cartridges are replaced free if you return them to the factory; however, you should always changed the blade if the cartridge engages, becasue the blade may have unseen damage and fly apart at a later time. I think that you can use any size blade and bypass the safety devices. Of course, you do not have safety features if you do. The safety bypass mode must be engaged for each time you turn the motor on, so you will not accidentally forget to turn it back on when you are done with the bypass mode. I think the real increased cost is up front. I think it is about $1,000 more than a comparable brand without the safety features. You should not be randomly engaging the stop. There is a simple procedure to check wood for moisture before turning the motor on. Wet wood will trip the safety, as will metal. The extension table was a disappointment. I think you should make your own extension if you get a SawStop. If you buy their extension, be aware that it is approximately 1/16" smaller than the space between the rails, so you should put some rubber washers in between the table and one rail when you install it to get traction to hold the table in place.

No, cartridges are not free (unless it's a new policy) if returned to the factory (I live close and have returned one in person). Also, wet wood generally does not trip it. Metal does (that's how I deployed mine). My blade lost a tooth in the process, but after inspection by the saw shop was given a new tooth and is back in action.
You can override the safety feature (for cutting metal or other conductive materials) but you can not use blades sized other than 10 or 8 inches.
-C

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Freeborn Guitars
and home of BeauGuard©

we have one here at McPherson guitars and I think it is a wonderful machine. Runs silky smooth and cuts great. We've never had any problems with it at all.

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John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

Hi Bill,

Thank you for contacting SawStop. In response to your request, on page 5 of the user’s guide it indicates that If you have an accident, meaning contact with the blade, yes, we will replace the cartridge at no cost. You may always return activated cartridges for analysis, but we will only replace them in the case of a “finger save.” Please let us know if you have any questions. Thank you!



Amber LaCombe

Sales Support Specialist

SawStop, LLC.



9564 SW Tualatin Rd

Tualatin, OR 97062

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Please clarify.



I thought that I saw a spot in my owners manual that you would replace stop cartridges free if they were returned to the factory for analysis. An acquaintance says that is not true, and that he returned one and had to pay for it. So, are they free if the tripped ones are returned?



Bill Bergman

Who cares how much it costs to reset? I tried to stop my table was with my left hand last November and it was not nearly as effective as the SawStop. I was really lucky (just finished my first build and was able to start playing again last week) and it still totally sucked. I only lost feeling and motion, and I'd happily get both of those back for whatever cost was asked.

A local college here got one last fall and one guy has already set it off twice!

Miek

PS Unrelated, I've been lurking a lot. Thanks for all the advice you guys put out there. You're all awesome. My first build isn't bad, but my 2nd guitar will certainly be better for it.

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Mike Lindstrom

Come on Miek, show us your stuff. We're showin ours!

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Miek - Whoa! Tell us more. If you want to. This thread is about a great idea that was put into practice and is already saving appendages. Miek, if I may use you as an example, (There but for the grace of God go I) I am sure your accident was not just expensive in the ER and surgical bills but most of all, as you pointed out, in the loss of motion and feeling. The cost of the saw is inconsequential compared to the ER and surgical costs.

As a safety engineer this scares the ******** out of me. Everyone, please take a moment at the start of each task to think through the procedure, tools and possible accident scenarios and devise safe practices.

I knew an orthodontist who would not do any crafts in order to reduce the risk of injury to his hands, which were his livelihood. I also knew a dentist who loved woodworking and built many fine cabinets. There is a balance of risk. If I stayed in bed everyday I would never be in an auto accident. But, tell that to the girl in the news yesterday that was almost crushed by a car coming into her bedroom on top of her bed!

The thread about shaping the necks with the shaper exposed with the work pieces being brought to the cutter head is another example of a serious accident waiting to happen. Remember the old cliche: Familiarity breeds contempt". Just because you did it yesterday and the day before that way doesn't make it any safer.

I work in risk analysis for the space shuttle. Fourteen astronauts are dead because the decisionmakers were told that "this has been happening since the first shuttle flight, it is "In family" with the experience." Well, it wasn't! And we still battle those issues of culture today in the space program. But we win a lot more battles for doing things safely and knowing the risks and quantifying the risks and then mitigating them.

Sorry for the rant.....I sincerely hope that I have not put anyone off.

Safety and the livelihood of your families depend on YOU.

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Steve Walden
Aspiring Builder,
Bartlesville, OK

Waddy,

Did you want to see my finger or my guitar? Either way, I'll post it to a new thread when I finish applying the shellac using the french polish technique (it seems to be coating both the wood and the finger) and after I've found the right camera angle to conceal a list of errors to long to fit on the internet.

But back to the SawStop. I have no first hand experience with one (literally or otherwise), but everyone I know who has used one says they're excellent machines.

Miek

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Mike Lindstrom