Official Luthiers Forum!

I just purchased some Loctite brand superglue for bindings. I believe it's the basic stuff. Pretty much "water thin" and clear.
Is this stuff OK to use on bindings. Or do I need to get "special" stuff for this. I'm using ebony bindings with herringbone purfling. I know I need to shellac the channels first. I did search the archives but couldn't find any specific info.

Thanks.

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Horton, MI

My educated guess it to say absolutely.

But like all issues, I test on scrap before going live.

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

Kirt buddy I wouldn't use it.........

I hate disagreeing with my dear friend and partner in crime JJ but I just have to here....... And many others will disagree with me too...... In fact I will be all alone, desperate, with no support what-so-ever on this one - but I would not use CA for bindings and especially ebony.

CA does best with more porous materials and as we all know ebony is very dense and not porous at all. Second although I have no data on the long term bonding properties of CA the problem is that no one else does either...... The stuff has only been around for 30-40 years or so and in more common use. And being very familiar with CA and it's use from another life I know that the stuff is only as good as it is fresh. Lock-tite is sold in stores that are unlikely to rotate stock or refrigerate back-stock.

One of the builders on the OLF that I have the utmost respect for told me that he had nearly an entire side of CAed bindings come off when he was attempting to remove it just from starting to remove it at one end........ He was amazed at how little of a bond the CA had created.

If it were me I would use Titebond and tape. And if you are going to use CA try a good hobby store and ask for Bob Smith, Satellite City, or the private labeled store brand CA that if you ask will usually be Bob Smith as well. Pacer Technologies, maker of "Zap" makes a good CA as well and "Carl Goldberg" also found in hobby stores is excellent CA.

I just use Titebond and tape, have plenty of time to get things right, never end up with any gaps, and I don't have to shellac my bindings channels either because Titebond has never stained one of my tops. In addition, if one is concerned about the bond when gluing a wood like ebony, a coat of shellac on the bonding surface cannot help the bond - it is much like attempting to glue something to a painted surface IMHO.

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Ann Arbor Guitars

Well, dangit.

I was just typing up a response to JJ and was going to go ahead and use it. Now you got me worried.
I've been planning on using titebond all along, but just in the last few days the CA has been on my mind.

Maybe I'll think about this for awhile.

Anybody else have any opinions?

Thanks JJ & Hesh. Look forward to meeting you guys in a couple weeks.

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Horton, MI

I've personally used Stewmac CA on 6 guitars that have included, BRW, Curly Maple, Bloodwood, as well as Ebony. After as long as 5 years, I have had no glue failures. I have also used HHG and LMI Instrument makers glue...also with no problems.

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

Hi Kirt,

I've used loctite ca on binding before. The guitar is 4 years old with no issues to date. It was on maple bindings. I've used CA on my ebony bindings here and I don't suspect any issues.





I remember Kevin Gallagher saying he has built an entire guitar using CA before and he had no issues.

If you want to use it, go for it. It just hasn't had enough longevity in the field to be sure if it will last a lifetime or two.

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My Facebook Guitar Page

"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

My first CA'd bindings were done in 1996 or '97. And they were done with Loctite(504, methinks).

Still holding fine, as far as I know....

But if you're doing wood bindings, go ahead and use wood glue unless you want/need to do the "tape dry and wick-in CA" method.

I know Kevin Ryan uses CA on his bindings too. He might use a different brand, but I'm sure that the brand doesn't really matter so much as the viscosity.

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Joe Breault
Merrimack, NH
Perpetual novice

I knew this would be a sensitive topic and I don't want this to turn into a disagreement so Kirt forget my post.

But I wouldn't use CA for ebony binding.............

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Ann Arbor Guitars

Hesh, just pointing out all the facts. I agree that since the bindings are wood, wood glue is probably the best option.

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Joe Breault
Merrimack, NH
Perpetual novice

Hey Hesh,

That's ok, you do have some good points. I've wondered too, about the adhesion issue when you use shellac on the channel.
And nobody knows what it will do in 50 years, might spontaneously combust!

'Course I really don't plan on being around then either.

Grumpy, do you still use CA glue for your bindings?

Still pondering... Thanks all.

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Horton, MI

I have been using wood glue on bindings since Noah was a bosun's apprentice. In the past Ii've used Titebond, but lately I've been using fish glue, for the longer working time that lets me get the rubber rope on in less of a rush. I do use CA for purfling these days.

I recently got some of the Loctite CA at 'Home Despot' when I ran out of the usual stuff. It's a little thicker than 'water thin', but works well. What's really nice about it is that, like it says on the bottle, it sets up more reliably on 'problematic' woods. Often things like walnut will just laugh at CA, due to their acidity, but this stuff works fine.

I often wonder about the longevity of CA, and what sorts of problems it might cause. I know they used a lot of the stuff on the 'Voyager' aircraft that was the first to fly around the world non-stop and non-refueled, and I wonder if maybe something will fall off it in the A&S museum sometime.

Just make sure you get the thicker formulation, suitable for gap filling. I would not think that the thin stuff would be good. I'm with Hesh...I use titebond for bindings and it works well. Also....CA fumes bother my eyes if I use it too long...I've never been annoyed by titebond in the least!

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http://www.PeakeGuitars.com

Grumpy, do you still use CA glue for your bindings?

yessir, when required(complex schemes) or with most all plastic bindings. I just use the thin stuff from the hardware store.....

Often things like walnut will just laugh at CA, due to their acidity,

here's an old trick, but one that few know of, it seems. Sprinkle baking soda lightly on one surface before using CA glue. it balances the pH and assures a great, and fast, bond.

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I'm with Hesh on this one - if the bindings are wood, use wood glue. I have seen CA fail on wood glue-ups as the wood moved in normal humidity changes. For small repairs and fill-ins during inlay, its great stuff - but I would not use it for wood bindings...

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Mitch

And here was I thinking Mario used acetone for all dem bindings!

Not no, but hell no! Acetone, if it touches my skin, sends me into chemical asthma... Not good.

I'll use acetone to melt binding joints, but that's it.

of his glued up with Star Bond (I believe) Ca that had been in a huge house fire. The temperatures sustained were enormous, and the inlays didn't budge. Shell is extremely NON -porous. That's why it doesn't stain easily. Stuff can't get into it.
However on the most expensive guitars in the world CA is being used to glue together shell, metals, corians, plastics, and wood. Only one of those listed is porous. The others are all way more solid and dense that wood. Ebony is still wood.
I don't know about Loctite specifically,
But I would not rule out CA.

Craig Lavin

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www.handcraftinlay.com

I've been using the baking soda trick for years, often referring to the stuff as my 'magic white dust'. I just rub it into the surface of the purfling with my finger before I start. It gets ground in, and enough stays behind to give the CA some alkaline sites to start to kick on. You can also make a mild solution of bicarb, paint it on, and let it dry, but check it on scrap, as it can discolor some woods.

I've stuck shell to a piece of aluminum with CA, and that sure wasn't easy to get apart. I had to heat up the aluminum block with a torch eventually to get the shell to come off. CA does quite well on non-porous surfaces if you have a good joint. Moreso than any other glue I can think of besides hide, CA has zero tolerance for a poor fit but if the fit's perfect...

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Bob Garrish
Former Canonized Purveyor of Fine CNC Luthier Services