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Well, the early part of the weekend was interrupted by a surprise visit from ny son and grandaughter (5), Ellie. Guitar building is second to that. Also, had to return my Craftsman Band Saw, and get another one. Stripped threads on bottom wheel adjustment. But, I finally got some stuff done. I prepared the back braces, and ended up having to make a couple of new ones when I got them too short trying to get them fitted right. Live, make misakes and learn! Anyway, here are some pictures.

First, lining up the brace locations, using straight edge on the centerline and a machinists square, and another straightedge. Seemed to work.

Decided to sign the top. Was afraid I might forget, if I didn't go ahead.

Glued in the brace supports and the back braces.

Glued in the reverse kerfed lining.

Made 9, adjustable little jacks as brace supports for when the back is glued on. This will keep the braces from being pressed out of shape.

Braces supported with jacks.

Finally took off the clamps and sanded the linings to the radius of the braces. The body is now ready to receive the back.

Worked some on final thicknessing of te back. Did not finish.

Well that's about it for this episode of "Waddy's First Build". Coming soon - Gluing the back strip and gluing the back on the box.

Once again, thanks for looking. Comments, recommendations and corrections happily received.

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Waddy

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Waddy I have not commented before because I wanted to wait until you were a ways along.

You do know all this is already copied to my hard drive?

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"It's a Tone Faerie thing"
"Da goal is to sharpen ur wit as well as ye Sgian Dubh"
"Sippin Loch Dhu @Black lake" ,Kirby O...

Excuse me for being so slow here, but I didn't know this was your first, Waddy!

Great pics. Very illustrative, if you know what I mean.

Waddy, you're going really well now, apart from your spelling of Plantilla! You seem to be thinking through each process very well and coming up with your own solution.

Keep us informed.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Great progress, Waddy!

That's a nice scraper plane you got there

Ok, that was a little inside message. A while ago I mentioned in another thread that I had a similar one, but that mine was missing the nuts that secure the blade assembly. Well Waddy, being the generous gentleman that he is, simply sent me a pair of the appropriate nuts... He also included a CD of his band, http://www.rosewoodguild.com/, and he refused to take any money for any of it (nor for the overseas shipping). OLF pay it forward, he wrote.

So you see, not only is he generous with his time and effort to share this building process, he is generous all around.

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

Go Waddy!

General question - It would seem that using this method of fitting the back braces and then gluing the back to the rim and braces at the same time would preclude any sort of tap tuning that one may want to do to the back (as well as cleanup of squeeze out around the braces). Do you see any compelling reasons for doing it this way aside from historical precedent?

(There have to be some, or it seems to me it would have died out quickly. I can't see the reason for it myself.)

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Jim Kirby
kirby@udel.edu

Really interesting build sequence.

But, how are you going to handle the glue squeeze out around the back braces. That looks like a potential problem. I guess, just reach those you can from the soundhole, or will that be covered during the back glue up?

John

Colin, glad I asked for corrections. No spell checker on my #2 pencil. That's why they make erasers. I can fix it.

Thanks for your comments, and correction. Glad I didn't seal it. Is that something that should be done, seal the signature with a little shellac?

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Waddy

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Waddy I am really enjoying seeing you build! Thanks bro!! CLAP, CLAP, CLAP, CLAP

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Ann Arbor Guitars

No need to seal it Waddy, good pencil mark should last forever, the pencil marks on Torres soundboards are perfectly visible today.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Waddy,

If you do remember to put the Z-poxy on before the shellac

Fabulous workmanship and set of build tutorials - I'm learning lots and lots, Keep them coming.

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Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

Thanks all!

KO, you are welcome to anything I have posted. Careful not to put too much stock in the attempts of a beginner.

Sam, life is fast, guitars are slow. You are fine! You can bet I'll keep you all informed. It is a group project, right!

Arnt, thanks for the plug. That #12 is the only thing that I have that will work Zebrawood. All my planes just dig out, regardless of how I approach it. Very frustrating. I guess it is the variations in hardness of the grain and softwood that causes it. Hope you got yours working.

Jim, this is, apparently, similar to the Romanillos method. I saw this method on the Claudio Meneghelli Featured Luthiers on the Classic Guitars International site. I am probably not experienced enough to "tap tune" it anyway. The top has a very nice sound. Pretty even all over. I kind of figure if I build it right, using proven techniques, the sound will take care of itself. I may be way wrong on this, but, after all, it is my first. I could tap, excite, measure, record, for a month, and I still wouldn't know anything more than I do now. It feels right, and it sounds pretty good so far - lets see what happens. I'm not too worried about the squeeze-out. I noticed that I didn't get a lot on my linings. I plan on using Fish Glue, and expect there might be a little, but it easily cleans up with a little scraper. I stole the blade out of my little Craftsman Mini plane, sharpened the blade, and did not remove the burr. It makes a killer, glue scraper, and is only about 2" x 1 1/4" in size. I can get that in the body and scrape around the linings if necessary. Leaves a beautiful finish. I really have not used sandpaper on the Zebrawood at all. Only scrapers and planes, when I could get them to work a little. the scraped finish is immaculate.

John, I think I covered you in Jim's answer. I have noticed that Fish Glue usually has a little less squeeze-out than others, or seems to for me. It is thicker and stickier in consistency.

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Waddy

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Dave, thanks. I actually even have some Z-Poxy, and could use it here(not before correcting my spelling though), However, I don't anticipate using it on this build. I really have not decided the best way to finish. I'm leaning toward French Polish, using the traditional method, in keeping with my attempts to keep this as traditional as possible, with some minor departures, for convenience sake.

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Waddy

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Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Waddy,

Cool. I meant on the signature - it was my feeble attempt at a joke

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Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

Waddy thanks for the reminder . I didn't realise my sig was missing.

I know you were. I was just saying I was prepared to follow your recommendation.

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Just thought it was apropos!

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Waddy, the only finishes I'd consider, If I were you, would be French Polish or Tru-oil. I usually French polish all of my guitars, but on my lutes and on the Torres copy, La lena, that I posted recently, I finish in a hand rubbed oil varnish, the closest commercial product to it is Tru-oil. It is also the closest finish to the one that Torres used, also an oil varnish. Interestingly my high end Kevin Aram also has an oil finish, he uses it on all of his guitars even the ones that Julian Bream plays. Kevin believes that it is the acoustically most transparent finish and just simply the best finish for a classical. Just use a thin coat of shellac on the top first.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Colin, I have been tossing the two options back and forth in my head. Tru-Oil and French Polish, that is, and had not really settled on a good answer. I want to add a little color, to mellow out the Zebrawood. I figured a little brown shellac & seedlac, or maybe orange, mixed into the blonde might give me what I want. I need to experiment some. Either way, I need to fill the Zebrawood, as it has big pores in the light areas. I was not sure whether to go with the pumice process, egg whites, as I had read in an early thread that Shawn has used, or Zpoxy. Still undecided. May take some samples and play with them before I get to that stage. I still have not mixed any shellac yet. Didn't want it to get old before I used it. I could be close enough to needing it now to do that. This is one place I'm really open to recommendations, cause I don't have a clue. In keeping with traditional methods, I probably will not use Zpoxy on this build.

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Waddy

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Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Waddy, I pumice filled with shellac as normal, then sanded back to wood on the backand sides. Then finished with the oil varnish. On the top I primed it with egg white as a sealer/conditioner one thin wipe of shellac then the oil varnish, very thinly. Egg whites are not a filler, they are only used on the top as a size.

I would suggest that you get some Tru-oil and try it on an off cut, I think you'll find it gives you a warm tint to the wood.

You could also Tru-oil the B&S and FP the top, that would be a good compromise.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Here are some quotes from Shawn, regarding egg whites as filler, and what made me think of using it.

Shawn: Posted: 24 Feb 2005
"One really cool "old school" thing that I learned at the GAL conference this last summer was from Geza Burghardt who does not use pumice/rottenstone, he fills pores using egg whites which dry clear. If he wants the egg white filler to add color, he adds color by boiling chicory (cheap in the coffee section of the grocer used for New Orleans style coffee) and adding a few drops of that brew to the egg whites. Geza's techniques have their roots in old world lutherie from violin family builders."

Shawn: Posted: 20 Oct 2005
"Greg and the most traditional, Cyndy was traditional with the exception of epoxy instead of pumice for pore filling and Geza on the other hand was use a french polish technique for application but with egg white for pore filling and adding gum resins to the shellac/alcohol mix.

Both the egg white pore filler and use of gum resins in a spirit varnish have a long tradition in finishing violin family instruments.

For pore filling with egg whites you use straight egg whites that are brushed on thin and allowed to dry. It only takes one or at the most two thin coats to fill the pores. Do not put them on to thick or it will turn white. You can tint the egg white mixture with a few drops of expresso, brewed roasted chicory (found in the coffee section for cafe au lait) or tobacco juice. It is only toning the egg white not dyeing or tinting the finish. "

Shawn: Posted: 23 Oct 2005
"The egg white wash is applied before any sealer. Egg white dries nearly clear. You can try it by spreading some egg white thinly on a piece of glass. If the idea of filling the pores is just to fill then to get the surface level then an egg white coat will not add anything that would interfere with the rest of the finish. Because the egg white filler is very thin it flows and fills the pores easily. No more than two coats are usually needed.

Egg White is a very old school approach and is just one approach to filling pores. I am not saying it is better than any other method, just one that works and is organic.

Egg whites, yolks amd milk have been used in painting for centuries as it is rich in protein which is a good binder, use to source and very inexpensive. Egg yolks were/are used for Tempura paint. Tempura paintings were then sealed with a varnish based on egg whites called Glair. Milk has been used as a protein base for paints such as milk paint.

Geza's approach to sanding the surface after the egg white filler is dry is to not sand! Rather what he recommends is a 3M product called polishing cloth which is available in several grades (grit). His opinion is that at that point you do not want an abrasive operation just a gentle action to get back to a level surface but not to pull the filler out of the grain.

I have not found a source of 3M polishing cloth but because it sounded like microabrasives and I had a good stock of them (which I got from International Violin supply) I have used them and it has worked well. I still us a rigid sanding block as I would for sanding but only use the microabrasives and it works well.

Because the egg white filler is not solvent based once the surface is leveled it is very stable and ready for a shellac sealer and whatever finish you would put on top.

The reason why this combination of egg white filler and Geza's shellac recipe are appealing to me is that I only build classical guitars of which French Polish is traditional and the added benefit is that it doesnt involve any volatile chemicals. I am not opposed to Z-poxy or water based finishes and the like but am just old school so when I saw Geza's results and it kept within the range of old school techniques I was comfortable with I was convinced."

Shawn: Posted: 17 Jul 2006
"The pore filler I have always used is egg whites. When I started building the only book on guitar building was A.P. Sharpe's Make your own Spanish Guitar. In it under finishing the only filler he mentions is "Alabastine" and because I didnt (and still dont) know what it is, the only other book I could find was an old book on building violins. In it egg whites are mentioned both for sizing and pore filling so that is what I used.

Geza Burghardt at the last previous GAL conference mentioned that if you want to tint egg whites that coffee made from chicory (as in New Orleans Cafe Au Lait) can be used to "tone" the egg white.

I would not worry about its stability...egg tempura painting have lasted for centuries where as inorganic substances used in painting and finishing do not last. I understand all of the potential benefits and coolness of things like Zpoxy, but doubt that over time it will exceed that of egg whites.

That said, be careful to not use too think a coat or too many coats of egg whites or it can leave a white residue in the pore that does not look good. The key is quick coat (because of fast drying time), sand flush and then apply again to hit any spots not up to level."

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Waddy

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Waddy - looks like you are going really well. Cheers!!!

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"Building guitars looks hard, but it's actually much harder than it looks." Tom Buck

Thanks, Steve. I'm coming along, but everything takes longer than I anticipate. I need to learn to anticipate better.

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Hi Waddy, looks like you're getting along famously with your first build! I like the attention that you pay to the details and the general neatness of your work! That's going to be great guitar when you're done, I can tell.....

I would never have thought of using egg whites for filler! Doesn't it go off and whiff a bit after a while? I know (from when the front windows of my house were egged by some of my middle sons high school "friends" a few years ago) that it dries really hard!

Cheers for now,
Dave F.

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Cambrian Guitars

"There goes Mister Tic-Tac out the back with some bric-brac from the knick-knack rack"