Official Luthiers Forum!

Hey guys. Can you all help steer me in the right direction on this? Basically, I'll be sharpening bench chisels and some plane irons. Should I get a bench grinder or a set of stones? As far as stones go, the waterstones look like a pretty effective system. I'm a little confused on what is the optimal grit and how many are necessary.

What do you guys use?

Neither. I used to use water stones, but have since moved on to using the 'scary sharp' method. Look it up. Essentially you just use different grits of sandpaper on a dead-flat surface (I use a machined plate, others use a piece of plate glass or granite countertop) instead of stones.

_________________
Bob Garrish
Former Canonized Purveyor of Fine CNC Luthier Services

Jack I use stones and have a 1,000 and a Norton combo 4,000 and 8,000 and they work very well for me.

I like the idea of a power sharpening system but thought that I had better gain some understanding of the process of sharpening first. So I hung in with the stones and now, with a quality steel chisel or plane blade, get great results.

Lot's of folks love the scary sharp method too and also get great results.

_________________
Ann Arbor Guitars

I use a double sided India, a white Washita, and a Black Arkansas, all oil stones. I only have one water stone and although it does cut fast, I find it marks and wears easily.

I've had the oil stones for a number of years now and I doubt I'll change to water, but I do have a small WEN water type bench grinder that works quite well when I need to re-define my angles.

If I were to look at new stones I would probably still go with oil stones as they seem to last much longer (my Black Arkansas still looks like new even though it is over 30 years old.)

Cal

_________________
Remember, there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers!

Hey Cal welcome to the OLF!!!!!

_________________
Ann Arbor Guitars

I have the 4000/8000 Norton, too, but with a DMT diamond stone (course/extra-course) instead of the 1000 Norton. I'm completely happy with the edge I'm getting, but there are a few scratches from the DMT left after going through the 4000. I thought about picking up the 1000 grit Norton and eventually decided against it because at some point good enough has to win out. The finished edge can cut hairs off of my forearm, and that's good enough

Todd turned me on to this setup.

I forgot to mention "Scary Sharp" in the equation. That seems like a pretty cheap way to get started. I think I'll try that. Bob, do you use a spray adhesive or paper with an adhesive back? I read through the Scary method and it says to use 3 grits of aluminum oxide, and 8 of the silicon carbide. Do you ever skip grits?

Scary sharp. Not only cheaper, better....

I've been very happy with the DMT Duosharp Diamond stones available from Woodcraft. My sharpening needs are similar to yours, chisels, plane blades, scraper blades etc. and the dual grits available make for a simple and effective set up without taking up a lot of space ............

I use anything flat that's around. In my case it's usually the back of one of my aluminum fixtures. No adhesive, I just wet the paper and it sticks to <insert flat surface> well enough. Spray adhesive and the like might not lay dead flat anyhow.

The grits aren't a big deal. I have paper from 100 grit up to 2000 grit in stock here at all times, 320-2000 is wet-dry. I usually don't skip grits, but I don't think it's a big deal if you do, it'll just take a bit longer. You're only going to need to go through all of them if you let your chisel get really dull, I pretty much just clean up on 1200-1500-2000 when they're not cutting like they should.

Honing guides are highly recommended. When it comes down to it, consistency is king. I can sharpen a chisel guiding by hand to a really slick edge, but I can do it a lot faster by slapping it in the Lee Valley guide and going through X grits in two minutes or less.

_________________
Bob Garrish
Former Canonized Purveyor of Fine CNC Luthier Services

-

I like the Norton stones too. And then a leather strop with compound to finish it up.

_________________
Mike

"The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that. It's good knowin' he's out there. The Dude. Takin' 'er easy for all us sinners. Shoosh." The Stranger

I'd been using the Scary Sharp method also. But if you count the cost at .90 to 1.00 a sheet, you'll spend a lot. Bought a combination 1000/4000 Norton waterstone. It's faster than the sandpaper method. I didn't like having to use the "billion" different grit sheets to arrive at an edge. The only thing you gotta do is flatten the stones, but it doesn't take very long. This is my opinon only. I've only been using the Nortons for about 3 weeks, but man.....I really like em'! Before buying the waterstones I bought a video by David Charlesworth on sharpening hand planes. He uses them and shows exactly how to use them. Granted, I don't use everthing in the vid, but it's helped me.
Dave

Medium and fine diamond stones with a 4000 grit waterstone to finish. Will sharpen anything you need for lutherie.

_________________
It's not the miles ahead, it's the stone in your shoe


In Markham,Virginia

One of my friends got a Work Sharp 3000 for Christmas and brought it over to sharpen all of my chisels. I wish I hadnt have used it. It does, in fact, put a sharpening on the chisel, but that sharpness doesnt last very long at all. I did notice that it changed the angle of my chisel points as well, which may be the reason that I am having difficulties with it. I have since gone back to the scarey sharp method. it takes a little effort, but it lasts a long time and is easy to get the sharpness back when it gets dull.

_________________
Reguards,

Ken H

Eclipse type honing guide, diamond stones and final honing on a 8000 grit Japanese water stone. Bad nicks, flattening the backs of old irons, new bevel angles and so on are quickly done on a stationary belt sander before moving to the stones.

_________________
Rian Gitar og Mandolin

6" bench grinder to hollow grind the bevel, coarse DMT large diamond stone (those are great and dead flat) for flattening the back and shape the 25º or 30º secondary bevel, 1000 and 8000 waterstones followed by stropping on leather with fine compound. I tried oil stones and sandpaper on a glass plate before but settled on this. Flattening the waterstones is no big deal, 2 minutes in the sink under running water on the diamond stone and an episodic touch-up with a Nagura stone. Seems to work the best for me. Everybody's different though.

_________________
Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

Scary sharp here for 4 years now. I love it...it's part of my psyche now and I'll probably continue with the method but retain the right to change my mind depending on my mood!

In reality, no matter what method you use, it's more important to develop the habit of keeping everything sharp all the time. Don't over-extend the time between touchups!

Seems like we address this issue on a regular basis...seems like monthly. Perhaps we need a "Sharpening Options" section in the Tutorial Section.

_________________
JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

I have the Work Sharp 3000 - its a motorized version of Scary Sharp. It works very well and very quickly.

If you log on to Finewoodworking's online site, you can see a video of Bob Van Dyke doing sharpening instruction. He runs the woodworking school I teach at part time. He is a big, big fan of the shapton japanese ceramic water stones, and he can get an edge on the blade like nothing I've ever seen...but they're expensive, and the initial sharpening takes quite a while.

I do believe that you need to know how, and more importantly, why, sharpening on stones is done the way it is, and i do know that, but I prefer to spend my limited time in the shop building and not sharpening...

hence the WS3000...

_________________
Mitch

Excellent summary Todd...this should be saved!!!

Thanks for posting

_________________
JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

Yep! Good one, Todd!

_________________
Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars