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capped lining
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=15526		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  TommyC [ Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:56 pm ]
Post subject:  capped lining
Hello all! I was trying to search for some info about capped linings but was unable to come up with anything. Can anyone lead me to some previous discussions or websites? Or possibly explain the process and theories? Thanks.
Author:  Hesh2 [ Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: capped lining
Tommy try searching under Fox Style linings. Also Paul Woolson made these available to us a couple of years ago so perhaps search under his posts and Fox style linings too.
Author:  Brock Poling [ Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: capped lining
I am using them... what do you want to know?
Author:  Rod True [ Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: capped lining
Hey Brock, can you take some pictures of them so we can see how they're cut and fit together.

They say a picture is worth 1000 words, could you maybe put 2 or 3 pics up of differnet angles, installed and not installed than you won't have to type so much.

I'd like to make some (I know it's time consuming, but that's ok) and give them a try, just need some visuals of how they look and go together.
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: capped lining
I dunno! That would be the same as 2,000 or 3,000 words. That seems like a lot for capped linings.
Author:  TommyC [ Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: capped lining
Well Brock, a visit to your site was actually the impetus for this question, so I'm glad that you have jumped in! I havn't been real happy with kerfed linings. I have been contemplating laminated linings as per Bogdanovich, using some spanish cedar veneer but before I make any glue up forms I wanted to investigate capped linings. I agree with Rod in that I don't mind the extra time of either method. So, specifically, how do you make 'em? I bet they are pretty stiff. Anyway, thanks.
Author:  LanceK [ Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: capped lining
I have used them as well, here are two pictures,
the first shows the first part of the two part capped lining being glued in,

The second images shows the linings after the caps have been glued on.
Attachment:
P2060431.JPG
Author:  Colin S [ Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: capped lining
Tommy, I went to laminated linings a while ago, after trying all of the various kerfed varieties. Best decision I have made in a long time. Once installed the sides are rock solid.

Attachment:
Laminated linings.JPG


Colin
Author:  Terry Stowell [ Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: capped lining
soooo...Are you guys buying them somewhere, or making them yourselves?

Can someone do a tutorial for the rest of the community? (Please start a new thread labeled capped linings a tutorial )

Thanks~!
Author:  James Orr [ Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: capped lining
I installed my first set of Fox-style capped linings this week (made by Paul Woolson).

Before gluing them on, the rim mostly held it's shape but still had a lot of spring. The waist would flare out when removed from the mold. You know, pretty typical. After gluing them on? This is easily the stiffest rim I've made. Rock solid, and not a hint of spring. It maintains it shape perfectly. I don't understand the physical things going on or why these make the rim so solid, but they definitely work.

To date I've used typical triangular linings, reversed kerf linings, and Kevin Ryan's wicked cool looking A4 linings. I still have three more sets of these things, so I'll take a few measurements and pics. I'd love to find a way to make them myself, but I'm not sure how I'd make the rabbet for the cap. If I can find a feasible way to do that in my router-table-less, table-saw-less shop, I'd love to experiment with Rick Turner's method of slipping .02" carbon fiber between the lining and side, too.

They were definitely more work to install. I asked Paul if he had any tips, and evidently you're supposed to pre-bend them. Oops [uncle]
Author:  Tom West [ Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: capped lining
Strength wise I can't see how they are much stiffer then straight reversed linings. Just more work and more chance for something to go astray. If you want stiffness,follow Colins lead.
Tom
Author:  Joe Sallis [ Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: capped lining
Lance- your first picture is worth 750 words but your second only 3 words- not very clear!
This is a new concept to me. Am I right in thinking that there are 2 strips of linning that fit into each other? (I quessed that from your first picture, Lance).
Author:  John Coloccia [ Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: capped lining
I don't understand the point of the rabbet in the capped linings. Why not just make the linings flat and just glue on the cap? Is it just for looks?
Author:  Tom West [ Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: capped lining
James : These Fox linings and reversed linings work because of the separation of the sides from the solid unkerfed outer section. Make the linings thicker to increase stiffness. Thinking I beam may help. I find it nice to work with the ridgid sides but not sure it makes much difference once top and back are glued on the rims. Regular reversed or solid are the ways to go in my book.
Tom
Author:  SteveSmith [ Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: capped lining
I did my last one with laminated solid linings and I really liked the ability to work on the sides without having to worry about them flexing out of shape. In my case I found that there was no need to keep them in the mold although I did when gluing top and back. Takes a bit more time (I laminated them to a separate form before installing) but I will do it on the next one.
Author:  LarryH [ Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: capped lining
I've cut two lining strips, one slightly shallower than the other, bent to shape, then glued them one at a time to the sides to create a laminated, solid lining. It's all done on the guitar sides and not within a separate laminating process. Very quick and easy and creates quite stiff sides.
Author:  Tom West [ Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: capped lining
Anyone thinking about Fox or reversed linings should glue them in while sides are in the mold.I know everyone knows that but....................................
Tom
Author:  James Orr [ Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: capped lining
Tom West wrote:
Strength wise I can't see how they are much stiffer then straight reversed linings. Just more work and more chance for something to go astray. If you want stiffness,follow Colins lead.
Tom


Tom, when I've used reversed linings in the past, the sides have still had a bit of flex when taken out of the mold. I took these out last night just to see how they'd hold their shape. They were significantly more rigid.
Author:  Tom West [ Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: capped lining
James: I wonder what is the thickness of the filler strip...??
Tom
Author:  James Orr [ Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: capped lining
That's a good question. I'll take some measurements today (I have three more sets) and post them.

I did some digging and found this gem of a thread. Paul says he thinks the height is really what locks that stiffness in: viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=1221&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=linings
Author:  Rodger Knox [ Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: capped lining
+1 on solid laminated linings. I've decided that's definitely the best for me, now all I've got to do is decide what wood to use. I've used oak, poplar, and basswood and they all have pros & cons, but they are all better than kerfed linings, IMO. I use 2 at 5/16"x1/16" and 2 or 3 at 3/16"x1/16", depending on the purfling.
Author:  Tom West [ Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: capped lining
James: More height is like adding more width to a brace,direct proportion,adding more thickness is like the cube factor when adding more height to a brace. To be clear I'm saying height is the face glued on the side and thickness is the distance from the side.
Tom
Author:  itswednesday14 [ Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: capped lining
In the back of my mind I am thinking that Grumpy does this kind of thing. He has been very secretive about it. My theory is that because he makes dreadnaughts the capped linings reduce the top area and tame the beast. So he thinks the capped linings make the guitar sound better. Anyway its been awhile since Ive been to his site so maybe he explains it now.
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