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| How does Martin Finish it’s satin necks? http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=15375 |
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:05 am ] |
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Just a quick question. I was wondering what Martin uses to finish it's satin necks. I have heard semi gloss lacquer and also that they use oil. Either true? |
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| Author: | David Collins [ Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:18 am ] |
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Just a flattening agent in the lacquer, and no wet sand or buff after the final coat(s). |
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:26 am ] |
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Thanks David. That was kind of what I was thinking. I've just started using tru oil on necks and was curious. Plus I just ordered a new martin and that got me thinking. |
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| Author: | Rick Turner [ Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:34 am ] |
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Why not call the factory and ask? There's more to it than just flatting agent in lacquer... |
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| Author: | David Collins [ Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:08 pm ] |
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You're right, it's not all in the flattening agent. I talked to someone at the factory a few years back about it when I had to replace a back on a 16-series. I got some of the shaded lacquer from them for the color, but don't recall if I got the flattening agent from them or not. Aside from the flattening agent, the real key is the spray gun you're using. If you don't have a good gun and spray setup you won't be able to get it to look right. It's been so long I don't recall their exact procedure, but the key is making sure the final coat is even, very well atomized, and not touching it after it dries. No sanding or buffing. I don't recall if they thin the final coat to get a smoother layer, but I doubt it. So take care of your sealing, filling, spray on enough build coats to be able to sand back to level out at least 80% of the pores, then spray one or two coats of your satin lacquer and don't touch it. The nozzle and pressure really do a lot to determine the look. A good fine conventional gun at moderate pressure is great for the finer Martin or Taylor look - you have to have a very good HVLP gun in my experience to atomize well enough, whereas a good/average conventional gun can do the job (with a lot more waste). For something like a National satin neck, a cheap HVLP gun spraying almost too thick a lacquer to atomize can give a very accurate look. Of course it all smoothes out and comes to some level of gloss after it's played for a while, but that's how they work. Again, I don't recall Martin's exact methods, but there's the gist of it as I recall. |
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:29 pm ] |
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Sounds like I'll stick with tru oil. It gives a nice finish with little effort. (If it's preped right that is) |
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| Author: | Rick Turner [ Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:28 pm ] |
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There's also the pore filling, the sealing, the build coats if you do them, how you sand between coats... And yes, that last coat just has to float on perfectly and you can't have any crap in the gun or in the air. I do satin finishes all the time, and it ain't easy, but it's easier than buffing them out. |
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| Author: | LoftonHarris [ Mon Jan 14, 2008 3:37 pm ] |
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Based on two visits to the Martin factory, my impression is that necks are stained and filled at the same time; a 'slurry' of stain and filler are applied ("slathered on", using a cloth applicator much like those used to apply marinade to meat) and allowed to dry. The next steps are not demonstrated on the tour. I suspect (based on nothing but experience in furniture finishing) that the filler coat is sanded and, if necessary, the neck is touched up with stain. Then the final finish goes on...see the experts for this! |
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Mon Jan 14, 2008 3:59 pm ] |
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Very interesting guys. As always, there is more to it than meets the eye. |
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| Author: | Rick Turner [ Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:11 pm ] |
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Yep, that's what they do. Try McFadden for the oil based stained pore filler. That's step one... Addam Stark is pretty darned good at a Martin-style finish. Ask him. |
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| Author: | Billy T [ Mon Jan 14, 2008 6:12 pm ] |
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I did a gun stock one time and gave it a good work over with nitro, then went over it with 0000 steel wool to kill the sheen. Not exactly satin, more flat, but sure got a lot of pleasant comments on it. |
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| Author: | DP LaPlante [ Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:11 am ] |
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Martin calls their neck finish a 15% gloss, or they used to at least when the necks were finished in nitrocellulose (now a "crosslinked" catalyzed polyurethane?). I think this certainly refers to the amount of flatting agent (strain it!!!) added to the gloss lacquer to knock it down to the desired sheen. Not sure if this this an actual measure, or some other value. It has been a while since I did these and I do recall using a large graduated cylinder to measure out the flatting agent and lacquer. Yes, fill and build as described above......the last coat needs to be right. |
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