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I have a bunch of maple but the problem is, if you make a guitar out of maple nobody will buy it.

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Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

I love oak myself, but in the past I've had trouble selling them. Maybe it will get easier, as the players start to realize how hard it will be to deal with rosewood.

From what I can see, it looks as though the upcoming regulation aims at making it illegal to sell non-CITES compliant materials within the US. So long as you can get the paperwork settled you're OK for now. That may change in the future, of course, depending on the way the political winds blow. Since we have no political or economic clout we're pretty much at the mercy of larger interests.

This new enforcement sucks on many levels. I have managed to accumulate a fair amount of BRW in my career. Most was tucked away in dusty corners of retiring instrument makers shops and even a nice slab under a loading dock at the Harmony Guitars going-out-of-business auction in Chicago in '76. No receipts other than a long-ago handshake. I have set aside the best stuff waiting for the right time to use it. How ironic it would be if it wound up becoming worthless.

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Stay with the happy people.
--Reynolds Large

Why not ?

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久保
美智え

Yeah, there's nothing good about this, but I guess we can all finally build ourselves that killer Brazilian axe (or twenty) we've been lusting after for years... I know I will...


Ken Jones
Mountain Song Guitars

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Mountain Song Guitars www.mountainsongguitars.com

John Thomas' most recent update on the subject -

http://www.fretboardjournal.com/feature ... n-rosewood

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Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.

Cool. I've been looking forward to a legal perspective on this. I'm also interested in watching how the courts enforce/interpret it.

I'm confused. Does this mean that all the guitars we luthiers have made with undocumented BRW in the past 7 years have been illegal, but simply unconvicted?

I was under the impression that "allowed use within the US" was basically free-for-all regardless of documentation, and only international trade required papers. But the pdf in the original post clearly states that allowed use within the US is non-commercial only, unless you have papers. Has it really been that way since 2007?

^^ I think everybody was. I know I was under that impression.

Between boneheaded folks in the US, and the scumbags in the UN - we'll all be building guitars from plastic and cardboard very soon.

And here's more gas on the fire about the Gibson brouhaha...
http://www.humanevents.com/2014/05/30/t ... -revealed/

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

Best info (so far) that I can find on this is in the comments section of the fretboard journal article that David Collins linked to-

Seems to lay out fear and hope all at the same time.

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Burton
http://www.legeytinstruments.com
Brookline, MA.

I'm still confused on a few issues myself. I wrote John with my questions and am hoping te hear back with some more clarification.

I know everyone has a different angle, but from my personal perspective as a repair person these are my concerns.

I have a fairly good stash of Brazilian bridge and fingerboard blanks in reserve for restoration and repair, none intended for new construction. All I own was aquired through personal sales from old wood shops, guitar shops, etc, and although I can personally attest with certainty that these were old sources, imported well before '92, I have no documentation or paper trail to prove it.

My understanding was that up until now, I could use this wood in any fashion I desired and only face restrictions on international trade, but none on domestic. Without a paper trail however, it still appears that this would no longer be legal, even in domestic trade.

It appears to me now however, that although nothing of significance may be affected by this most recent change, that any sales (even domestic) without proof of date of import or manufacture may have been in violation of the law for the past 7 years.

I'm still not clear if my understanding is correct. If John can't provide a clear answer on this issue, perhaps I'll call Fish and Wildlife next week. Last time I contacted them they were extremely helpful in helping to clarify the situation.

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Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.

"I'm still not clear if my understanding is correct. If John can't provide a clear answer on this issue, perhaps I'll call Fish and Wildlife next week. Last time I contacted them they were extremely helpful in helping to clarify the situation."

They may be following a "don't ask, don't tell" policy on old undocumented wood already in the country. It is certainly a can of worms for them also.

I echo David Collins' concerns. While I don't really have 150 sets of Brazilian Rosewood, I do have enough that I am concerned about ever being able to use the stuff on anything I may sell in the future. Not that I sell anything much anymore, but I did make an investment. I know without any doubt the the people I bought the wood from bought it in the early 1960's, but have no paperwork to prove it. Who keeps receipts that long? The government has never required that, so how can they enforce having paperwork on wood that was obtained that long ago? Essentially, they have made it virtually impossible to prove that the wood we have was legally obtained. It all amounts to the same thing as making the wood illegal.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Lesson to us - never throw out a receipt. We'll all need them for Mahagony, Spanish Cedar, the other Rosewoods soon enough, probably.

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Jim Kirby
kirby@udel.edu

David, I will be interested to hear what John or FWS says.

My interpretation of what I'm reading is:

-Technically all BRW has needed documentation to be sold within the US since 2007 (this is based on the discussions, not the actual regs. I don' expect to be able to make sense of the language even if I did completely read them)

-Realistically since 2007 no one at FWS was investigating or planning to investigate domestic sales. This is (I'm assuming here) verified by emails with people at FWS.

-I don't understand the significance of BRW not being on the ESA (Endangered species act) listing but this is brought up as an issue in the fretboard journal discussion and important towards documentation not having been needed.

-Even if that was an issue it would seem to be rendered moot by the 2007 regulations (conjecture on my part-)

-The new regs are an attempt to make it easier to document BRW (and other things, most likely) that does not have papers but was imported pre-ban. There are links in the fretboard journal article for this paperwork and some instruction about how to proceed. The most interesting part is that the poster (is that Chuck?, not sure-) seems to imply that they will be lenient in accepting evidence that is NOT hard receipts. Seems like it might take a bit of work but sounds promising.

The biggest question I have at this point is why did we all (by all I mean seemingly everyone I spoke to about this) think it was OK to sell domestically without documentation if truly the 2007 regulations are binding? That is the point I am most unsure about and the fretboard journal discussion does not make it so clear to me. If it was simply that we did need it but everyone knew they would not be investigating then that seems like a big missing part of the issue that I never heard about. That is completely possible, of course, but seems like a big thing to NOT mention from people who knew.

All in all I am heartened that it seems like FWS is making an effort to allow people to get documentation for their wood which is pre-ban but does not have receipts. That seems pleasingly pragmatic and a welcome effort on their part. I'm going to get started pulling all of my receipts and attempting to assemble as much background info as I can about what I have.

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Burton
http://www.legeytinstruments.com
Brookline, MA.

Don, you are exactly correct and this is one of the reasons that the enforcement will be modified. These regs are not out there to be a nuisance, there are real problems in the flora and fauna trade. No one has the perfect answer, it is like most things in life.

I fortunately keep my wood receipts for a long time because I can't remember what things cost. I file receipts for large purchases like entire units and boules with photos. Small individual specialty wood I copy the receipt, put it in a ziplock and tape one to every board or billet. Keeps it simple.

Tim

My accountant taught me well. I have everything going back to 1977 in boxes out in the garage, organized by year. Not just receipts, EVERY piece of paper for money spent, or money earned.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

The situation is clear, the goal is to eliminate all commerce in endangered species regardless of whether it was obtained legally or not. No commerce=no temptation for poaching.

I have some really nice finger board and bridge blanks with the ink lines and wonderfull smell- guess I should call them Indian rosewood

Also need to start working on a new product: jd's fingerboard oil. Tinted with oil soluble fluorescent die markers so can look groovy when planing out under the black lights as the 70's club and easily identify when it is time to re-apply. Bubble gum scented and optimized for use on South American Indian rosewood.

-jd

Burton, I read that the same way as you: That it might be possible to get documentation for old, undocumented wood. Maybe an enterprising person who knows how to deal with regs could make a profitable business by acting as a broker. We send this person pics and written histories of our hoarded wood and then he/she jumps through the regulatory hoops. We pay this person a fee and come out the other end with usable material. Should I take off my rose colored glasses now?

This is such a mess. I cannot possibly see an honest enforceable method of documenting wood. A piece of wood does not have a serial number that can be tied to a piece of paper. I could have a pile of documents, receipts, forms etc and a pile of wood. How could anyone affirm which goes with which?
I believe the intent is dead by regulation. This will and has created so much hassle, people will just avoid the wood and get out if this market. Since 2000 when I build number 1, I have stayed away from braz for the reason of cost and compliance. And it's not been easy, the wood is beautiful.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Also what's to say someone can falsify paperwork in order to make an undocumented wood appear as though it was imported before the ban? Lots of stuff comes though and without a way to positively identify the wood and tie it to a specific shipment, it isn't hard to fake things.

I don't see how they can enforce it.

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Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

The good news is that folks will still clear of any BRW that isn't documented in the future. I will never buy another set of Brazilian unless I have paperwork. In short, I will be much more thorough in investigation the legality of the wood -- that is a good thing. I sincerely hope that the FWS provides reasonable pathways to get old stock the certification it deserves -- so that innocent parties are protected of their investment.

At the risk of being the ******* in this discussion.... and Im only going by what other people have told me on this subject... people from brazil btw - is that brw isnt even as scarce as we are being led to believe... not by a longshot.... and that these regulations stem in large part from a misidentification of the range of the growing habitat of brw ...
Of course mahogany is going to be scarce if you look for it in New England sort of thing...
Of course I dunno if thats true or not - just throwing a fly in the ointment I guess... both of the people who told me this make at least some of their money selling brw - or did anyway...
I suppose it dont matter any which way now...
cheers
charliewood

Tai Fu, the fact is those whom you refer to as "they" are holding all the cards. Google "Krystian Zimerman piano destroyed". Here is a quote from a posting on WQXR's site written by Amanda Angel dated January 9, 2014:
"The Polish pianist Krystian Zimerman was one of the first classical music stars to test the heightened security in American airports in the post-9/11 era. In 2006, Zimerman, who travels with his custom-made Steinway piano, arrived at JFK to find that T.S.A. officials had destroyed his expensive instrument. The officials explained that its glue had resembled a compound used in explosives. This experience was one factor that led Zimerman to announce three years later that he would no longer perform in the U.S."

The quote from one of the TSA agents that destroyed his piano is "The glue smelled funny". I mention this incident not to stir up a bunch of anti-government rants but to illustrate that those agencies in charge of enforcing CITES, Lacey, etc can and do call the shots.