Official Luthiers Forum!

I attended a Taylor road show a couple of months ago, and one of the instruments showcased was a 12-string (no idea which one, but it was a San Diego-made solid wood instrument). The demo player mentioned that Taylor went to the trouble to adjust string heights at the saddle so that all the upper string surfaces were at the same height within each pair of strings. Sounds like a nice detail and one that has slim-to-no financial impact on a project but it would take a bit of a while to whittle the saddle into shape.

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Peter Havriluk

SteveT: Beautiful guitar. Obviously the guy is a pro, and has built a lot of guitars. He probably has a lot of elaborate power tools as well. I'm just a 71 yr. old garage guilder, who does most of my work by hand. I've built 4 guitars so far. It's very time consuming, and at times not the most accurate of assembles. If I knew how to send a few pics, I would. But I'm even having difficulties with this. Getting the neck set has been difficult, but I always seem to manage. A 12 string seems a lot different.

The guy is not a pro - the guy is me - just a 68-yr old geezer hobbyist. The 12-string was my 14th guitar. Good luck on your build!

Interesting.

I remember suggesting this feature on the AGF many years ago and got shot down in flames.

Building a 12 string is way into the future for me, but that is indeed the set-up I would implement.

Yes, indeed, the gallery of 'experts' offers any number of comments. I'm willing to take that comment from Taylor as a suggestion I ought to follow. They spent a whole bunch of time determining that it was worth their while to do that extra step, and it's within my means to emulate it when I build my 12-string. Having said that, I'd like to see the comments from someone who's taken an instrument that didn't have such a saddle and installed one.

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Peter Havriluk

Anyone that can help: I carved a beautiful 12 string neck from port-orford cedar with a 3/8 inch center of hard maple. The scarf joint was nicely done, as well as the rosewood overlay, and the 12 string tuner inserts were nicely drilled. Setting this neck was another story. I finally got it done with a simple miter joint and two bolts that go thro the block inside the body of the guitar. Howecer, the 14th fret on the fret board sets inside the guitar by about 3/16th of an inch. (I haven't glued the fret board on yet) I know it's supposed to be right over the neck joint to the guitar. Other than appearance, I see no reason to have to start all over with another neck build. What do you guys think?

Greg--

I think the things to consider are:

1. Is the bridge plate big enough that, if you move the bridge back toward the tail of the guitar by 3/16", the bridge will still fit inside the footprint of the bridge plate?

2. Will the wings of the bridge still straddle the X braces if you move the bridge back toward the tail of the guitar by 3/16"?

Once you install the fretboard, the bridge will need to be placed relative to the fretboard. If your fretboard is 3/16" closer to the tail than you thought it would be, then the bridge will be, too. Just things to work through. I have had situations where I needed to add a small "supplement" to the bridge plate, due to misjudging where the bridge would land relative to the bridge plate. Not a huge problem, if you deal with it.

Doncaparker: Don - Thanks for the reply. I did make the bridgeplate larger when I braced the top. It should work just fine! Thanks again; this has been a real challenge, and I've learned a lot about building the neck, after the fact. I really like the port-orford cedar, especially since it's from the NW up there in Oregon country.

Greg, since you haven't glued on the fretboard yet, did you plan to put the nut on the flat or the angled part of the headstock? If on the flat you could possibly shift it to the angled and gain a 1/4 inch or so.

If you decide to shift the bride towards the tail end and don't feel you have enough bridge plate for the double row of pins you could always put two string under one pin - its a little more awkward to string but several people have done this.

Last thought - you could always put a tailpiece on it and do away with the pins completely.



btw - that particular guitar has the saddle slots cut so the tops of each course are level (nut is done the same way). It sees a lot of action as a slide guitar and that lets me use a little lighter touch with the slide without getting rattles. Basically what Phavriluk said Taylor suggested.

Freeman: Nice suggestions - never thought of the tailpiece set up. Not sure of what that would entail, but I'm always up for something that looks a little different. The body is a dreadnaught with a herringbone trim. Might look quite different with a tailpiece. Problem is where do you get the parts for such a set up. It was difficult enough to just find the 12 string bridge. I'm probably going to go with the original arrangement, as the bridge plate is large enough to handle the present set up. I put in the truss rod and spline today, and am ready for the fretboard; maybe tomorrow. Can anyone help me with setting up pictures for this forum? It would be nice for you to see what I've done so far!! Thanks again. Greg

This got a big chuckle from the boss and another repairman...who have reset enough Spanish heels to know better.

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A constellation only takes shape when one maps the whole.
- Beth Brower

A few Gibson and Harmony 12 strings from the 60's used tailpieces and of course many of the wonderful ladder braced ones from the '30's did - Stella et al. This is a ladder braced guitar and I wanted to try to get that old Stella sound. I hedged my bet by making the bridge plate big enough that I could drill pin holes if I didn't like the tailpiece (in theory they should sound different).

I was going to fabricate a tailpiece but ended up using one from National Resophonic (they make a 12 string resonator). With a tailpiece you need to slot the bridge to space the strings - makes compensating it a little trickier but it can be done.

The way I post pictures works on almost any forum. I host them at a generic hosting site - Photobucket in my case. Its free, just upload your pictures, then when you are ready to show off click "share" and you'll get a bunch of url links. "Direct" gives the pure link, copy it and paste it into your post between

[img]...(URL)...[/img]

Bingo, picture is embedded

To All: Work is moving well on my 12 string. Started the finish with a new product demonstrated in the Fine Woodworkers Group in San Diego at a shop tour; using 'Royal-Lac' and so far it's working OK. Need to wait out this wet weather before completing the top finish. Was wondering what you guys use to fill in small fine like grooves on the sides of this rosewood, where the purfiling joint wasn't exactly right on, and there is a small area that needs to be filled. I've used CA glue with dust from the rosewood in the past, but it's a little difficult to sand and work with. Any suggestions?

Maybe rosewood dust and hot hide glue instead of superglue? See this thread for how it looks with rosewood:

viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=48497&hilit=inlay

Doncaparker: Thanks for the info. I went with a little trick we used at the Air Museum wood shop I volunteered with, and went with 30 min. epoxy, thinned with alcohol, and mixed with the dust. Can't even tell that a repair was made. Now I'm having fun routing the small areas around all the inlays that I'm putting on the fretboard. Some of those inlays I cut myself. Fun!!

I suppose you could always make a shim plate for the back of the neck.. That way you could dial in whatever thickness you need...

Sounds like your build is coming along well.... Post some pix