Official Luthiers Forum!

I have the offset diamond files I got from Stewmac 15 years ago and still use them, although the plating is starting to come off the handle portion, which prompted me to get the Ebay ones that I threw away.

They look like the ones in your link although I don't remember the seller, ad anyway they all look the same in pictures to me.

I don't like the triangular fret crown, and the "schoolbus" top to me just looks flat.

So I actually start with the new diamond files from Stew-mac: http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Fretting_su ... _File.html
I like them 'cuz they cut fast.

then I carefully shape them with the triangular file, then I finish up with my old offset diamond files to smooth and round the top, leaving a very fine markered line across the center of the fret (I index with marker).

Then I polish the frets up to 1000 grit and Mother's metal polish.
I've gone and markered the tops of the frets and slid the strings back and forth across the frets to see where the string rubs, and the crown is round, but the string hits in the very center of the fret only.

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Old growth, shmold growth!

I have the ultimate answer: No fret file! I haven't quite managed it yet but I can now fret a board that requires a touch up on just a few frets. I use a flat needle file to restore the crown.

ZING!!

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http://www.CostaGuitars.com
PMoMC

I tried this one from SM. I used it on one fret and went back to the LMII 3in1 unit. You couldn't tell the differences between the 2 radiuses, and it scratched (300 grit modle.. Not the 150) the heck out of the fret making for a lot more work. Anyone want to buy it? Half price..!

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Fretting_su ... _File.html

Hey Michael

If your serious ill take that file off your hands.

Let me know

Thanks

Joel

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http://Michaudmade.com

To answer Darrel's question... As Todd mentioned, you can get good results with the SM offset file if you "rock" the file. When I bought my fist one, I almost sent it back because I was ending up with those "school bus roof" profiles & the edges of the file made contact with the FB well before I wanted it to. Being in a hurry to get some jobs done, I took the brand new $100.00 file & carefully filed the edges down to get a shallower profile. I removed enough material to allow the file to be angled 15 -20 degrees each way, without bottoming out on the fretboard.
The only bummer about doing this is that the chrome starts peeling off once it is disturbed.
Sometimes, I still need to use a three corner file to dress the sides of the frets.
Though not a perfect tool, I find it works better than any other I've tried, once modified.

The regular fret file worked ok in restoring the top profile, just file until the line in the middle becomes real thin.

Thing is if I had to modify the diamond fret file and rock it back and forth to make it work, then I might as well just use a cant saw file or a flat triangular file... to add injury to the insult it costs more than twice as much as a regular fret file that works decently already.

I can file SS with regular triangle file, and if it wears out then I just buy another one, its only 3 dollars a piece anyways.

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Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

I also cant the file at an angle and find it works well for me.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

That's great for new necks or frets, but what about fret dressing worn frets?

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Old growth, shmold growth!

Hmm, I guess I'll have to try manually filing a more pointy profile and see how it sounds and feels. I haven't had any trouble with the "school bus" profile that the offset file produces. Or is it more of a concern with how the fret wears down over time, since the flatter profile would result in the contact area widening more quickly than a triangular profiled fret would?

You tell them that they need a new Guitar.

Why do folk use a three square or cant file for dressing frets? I know that you get the extra edge but I've always found it easier to judge the angles when using a flat file to crown frets.

'Cuz it works!

Seriously, you can use whatever file you want but the three corner file works for me because it has a good weight to it and is easy to control.

With the diamond files/crowning files in general, it's a little tougher to fiule the whole top evenly with just that file, So for example, fret 9 is much higher than fret 8, then fret 9 will have a bigger surface to crown, and possibly one side may be rounded before the other side. It's easier to match up the crown with the three corner file for me, then follow it up with the 300 grit diamond file to smooth and finish them.

_________________
Old growth, shmold growth!

I think a wider flatter top would wear longer due to the increased surface area vs a narrow pointy top.

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Old growth, shmold growth!

There are a couple of points which I think should be addressed here.

Firstly, the profile becomes more important the higher the fret height. On current Martins, for example, which are sent out with .035" high frets, then there isn't much to be gained by filing a "narrow pointy top". However, when you increase the height to .043" or higher then there is a dramatic increase in playability when you get rid of the "school bus" and substitute the "pyramid". This is particularly noticeable if the player's style involves lots of glisssandos (in both directions) and hammer-ons. When you get rid of that shoulder on both sides of the fret, the fretting fingertip glides naturally up and down the fretboard...with the school bus profile, it's like encountering a series of speed bumps. But.... be warned that most guitar players do not grasp this the first time you try to explain it to them ...the first reaction is that "the frets will feel sharp". Well, the frets do not in fact feel sharp, and once they have experienced the feel of a well profiled pyramidical fret, they will not want to go back to the "school bus".

The other benefit is more accurate intonation. Even though the fret top contact point may be perfectly centered in the school bus profile, the fact is that when the string is depressed it is not going to register off the center of the fret, it is going to be pulled slightly back, and the string length will be slightly longer, therefore the pitch will be slightly flatter.Now , I appreciate that this will be offset by the fact that the string is being stretched, and the stretching will probably compensate for the flattening , but ...since we go to such lengths to locate the frets accurately in the first place, why not go the whole hog and ensure that the string is actually fretted at that point ?

Todd makes a very salient point about the quality of fretwork on custom guitars.

I have been fortunate enough to be in a position to examine many boutique guitars from different US makers over the last few years, and although the quality of the woodworking and finish, ( and tone ) has rarely if ever, been less than awesome, I can state categorically that more often than not, the quality of the fretwork sucks, bigtime. I have no idea why this should be so ...maybe the builder is not an expert player, and just doesn't understand what a decent set-up is like ...or more likely , he has spent so much time and effort on the instrument and just wants it out the door...and I can understand that ...

I concur.

This is one of those areas where being able to do the same thing over and over again, constantly evaluating and improving, comes in handy (kinda like that sushi guy).

Becoming proficient in fretwork and setup is imperative. And unlike guitar bodies, where you can fudge something and just sand it away and blend it in, or make the body contours slightly different every time, fretwork must be exact from start to finish if you want the best result, and every little detail from the sheen of the finished surface, to the final height, to the shape of the top whether schoolbus, pyramidal, or evenly rounded, has a subtle effect on the final overall feel of the instrument. Crappy fretwork will make an otherwise perfect instrument feel deficient.

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Old growth, shmold growth!

"School bus" fret also causes buzzing. Most the time proper crowning of the frets fixed mysterious buzzing for me.

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

Ah, that explains it, as I prefer lower frets. But I suppose I'll try doing high, pointy frets sometime and see if it changes my mind.

So, I guess the offset diamond file isn't the best design after all. But it's still pretty good.

Another possibility is that "LittleBone" thingie... looks like a quick and easy way to produce the pyramid profile, and cheap too.

Becoming proficient in fretwork and setup SHOULD be imperative.

I would hate to rely on other luthiers to make my beautiful (I think they're beautiful, anyway!) guitars play and sound they're best.

I don't think bad frets would sound their best, though they may sound good to a degree.

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Old growth, shmold growth!