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Haans and Dave, nice stuff indeed!
Can't argue with your results.
I could see where application directly on the wood brings out it's nuances and the chatoyance.
(Bet you guys didn't think I knew words like that. )
Is there ever an issue with the color soaking into the wood making it difficult to redo if necessary.
Any problem with bleedover into wood binding, rosette etc?
Nelson

Haans is the master (his finishes are great ... I've only done one this way), but I think this approach works because it does soak in to the figure & increases the intensity compared to the non-figure. Tinted lacquer (or any technique on top of a sealcoat) sits on everything uniformly, so no amplification of the figure.
My water dye coats were light (used a touchup gun BTW), so it took 9 coats (3 different mixes), plus 2 or 3 with an airbrush (& a little black added) around the edges. Can't address wood binding

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Dave
Milton, ON

Well . . . . Matter of taste here. Dying the wood pops figure at the cost of decreasing chatoyance, and it produces a muddy look on spruce, which just won't take dye evenly on raw wood. Some find that to be more "organic." And you sure better get it right the first time!

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

You're right...you can get into trouble with spruce. As I said, I just went slow & was quite pleased with the top ...... no blotching/muddiness & no loss of character.

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Dave
Milton, ON

That's a really nice sunburst Dave.

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

No mud here either, and this was trans-tint diluted with water airbrushed straight onto raw spruce.



Not a real burst, just a very subtle aged tonal burst. I used to rub in the tints and then I did have problems with uneven splotchy toning and mud, then I followed Haan's advice and tried the airbrush. I won't be going back to the hand rubbed dye.

Joe

I can't stress enough how risky this is. Maple takes stain pretty evenly but watch out if you're using any other wood. Attached is a picture of some basswod that was my first attempt at a super subtle burst spraying very mild transtint in alcohol. If there's even one big pore in the wood it will soak up the dye and concentrate it immediately - kind of the way the curls in maple suck in the dye.

Those pores were pretty much invisible before I sprayed and what you see is after sanding back as much tint as possible. I've included a pic of the finished burst to indicate how subtle the dye was. Once I sanded back as much disaster as possible, I sealed with shellac, added shellac flakes to the dyed alcohol and re-sprayed my finish.

The only time I'll ever dye bare wood again is to pop the curl on maple.

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http://www.birkonium.com CNC Products for Luthiers
http://banduramaker.blogspot.com

Aw, dang Howard, I forgot "IMHO"...
Don't know about the "muddy" part on spruce...airbrushed dye is about as clear as you can get.



Is it difficult? Sorta, but not unknowable with some practice (nice job Dave, light is much harder to do than dark). Can you screw it up? Yes, but part of doing sunbursts is learning how to FIX them. Will there be pores? Of course, we ain't talkin' laminate here...it's wood.


As far as chatoyance, I never liked them mushrooms...

Where one person sees clear, another sees muddy. De gustibus non est disputandum

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

So you're saying you see muddy in the bursts posted here Howard?

Joe

I think it's a matter of degree. I know people on both sides of this that I respect and know to produce exceptional work. I've done both and simply prefer the results I've gotten clearing first, not to mention it IS far safer to tint onto clear than right onto wood, particularly spruce. One spit from the gun or moment of lost concentration and instead of a rag soaked in alcohol you're removing stain with sandpaper. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.

Edit: Obligatory sunburst pic

Whatever Howard...

You're dang right, Haans!

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

Ahhhh, I just love the subtle beauty of this top!

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Mike I have to agree with you there. I sprayed dye in alcohol and got the dreaded splat from my spray gun. There's no sanding it out - only respray. I'll go with color in lacquer next time.

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A higher purpose for wood.
Rich Smith
Issaquah, WA

I've only done one burst and it ended up sort of ok. I wash coated it and then (alc) dye stained it by hand but ended up finishing it with toned laquer. My binding was white plastic and bwbwb purfling on the top. The stain bled through under the tape and stained the binding and purfling. The plastic scraped off but the white purfling stained in spots and I couldn't get it off. I'm building an electric next with flamed maple top and want to burst it also so this time I'm going to try to spray all of it with some thinned colored laquer. Any thoughts on how to seal the binding/purfling?

I use Qualasol from Behlens to seal the binding and purfling. Then clear-coat and then use the 3M blue premium striping tape over the purfling and binding before applying the tinted Lacquer. I mix the tinted Lacquer as dark as possibly to cut down on the coats needed to achieve either the transparency or opaqueness desired. One other tip; if you think you have the burst even under the shop lights take it outside in the bright sunlight and any inconsistency of the burst will show up. Take it back in and shoot to correct and check it outside again. When it looks right pull the tape look for bleed under the tape, scrape as necessary (Shouldn't be necessary if you applied the tape correctly) and start pouring the clear to it. I put at least five coats of clear before lightly scuffing with 800 grit. Staying off of the edges. Then another three coats before sanding with 800 grit again.

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"Try to be the person your dog thinks you are."

http://sites.google.com/site/bertsguitarshop/

Bert, that chocolate looks delicious!
Nice work!
Nelson

I am just finishing up this LP. I did the primary yellows and reds by hand with transtint dyes and water. The deeper wine and almost black wine colors were transtints mixed with Target's EM1000 clear sanding sealer. After doing the base colors, I sealed with a couple of coats of clear EM1000 then sprayed the outer edges of the burst. I shot the finish so light it was almost dry when it hit the wood. This did leave a rough texture compared to when nice, even wet coats are laid down. After the color coats, I shot two coats of amber tinted shellac over the whole burst then followed up with clear coats. I didn't touch the burst with sandpaper until I had a half dozen coats of clear lacquer above the shellac. By then I could level the finish and not worry about sanding through to the tinted layers. Once done, the whole burst was nice and level.

Ken

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http://www.casperguitar.com

I would say when you think you have the burst even under the shop lights, STOP! Declare victory. Don't take it outside; you might see something that leads you to think you can improve on it. This usually leads to regret. How many people are ever going to examine it in bright sunlight, anyway? How many good looking bursts don't have some unevenness in bright sunlight, anyway? STOP while the stopping is good.

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

In medicine they have a saying: "The enemy of Good is Better"

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http://www.birkonium.com CNC Products for Luthiers
http://banduramaker.blogspot.com

I've personally never regretted getting it right
People do play outside Howard. It's not "voodoo" to get the burst corrected as it's usually an area that is too light. You simply fog that area lightly and let it flash and take it back into the sunlight to check. You're still shooting the same color you started the burst with so it will blend perfectly. Maybe the inexperienced who don't know how to adjust their air pressure and gun settings and don't have the viscosity of the Lacquer correct could mess up by shooting too much on the retouch. Less is more because you can do it again if you don't make the light area blend. I've been shooting sunbursts since 1971 and that's the way I've always done it with excellent results.

_________________
"Try to be the person your dog thinks you are."

http://sites.google.com/site/bertsguitarshop/