Official Luthiers Forum!

As a fully fledged, totally certified amateur with fledgling experience, I thought it might not be worth adding fuel to this debate, by hey what the heck why not?

Most of the reasons why some pros do not wish to post here seem to have been covered;

1. Some simply dont have time, what with earning a living, providing for and spending time with family etc
2. In an extremely competitive environment, whilst its clear that the principles of guitar building are pretty much established, the nuances and self thought out intellectual property that makes the subtle but important differences between good guitars and superb instruments are important competitive differentiators and quite rightly some will want to guard this.
3. All pros with loads of experience will most likely happily acknowledge that the more they learn the more they recognise there is still to learn... and whilst those who have attempted this craft will appreciate this fully, there is a danger that potential customers dont see it that way and may be discouraged if they see their potential builder of choice still asking questions or looking for thoughts and insights on new and innovative method.
4. Some simply dont like the internet or these fora - as we see from many threads, its so easy to enflame or be misinterpreted or represented, and getting into argument is often simply too much of a waste of valuable time.. let alone the grief that comes with it.

I know 2 experienced pros very well -neither post on here or on other foru.... BUT both are only too happy to share and mentor newbies - Including their 'secrets' and techniques - I only had to ask and commit to the process. I suspect that many Pros's who dont post would more than recognise that where amateurs such as myself provide no competitive threat, its great to share and pass on their knowledge to those that appreciate it.

I remember when starting my first, I sent and email to Gerald Shepperd just inquiring on his thoughts on Macassar ebony + German top - explained I was thinking about this and only ever having owned the Standard IRW/Sitka guitars was interested in his thoughts on the combination and any practical tips on working the materials etc. He sent a lovely response, good information and a very positive and encouraging message which was greatly appreciated. (To this day a lovely Cocobolo German spruce guitar of his I played in TAMCO, is possibly the best instrument I have EVER played... one day... I will own one! )

I think that my point is, forum posting is not representative of whether someone is willing to help or even answer naive questions - just for some its not the right or appropriate vehicle for doing so.

Finally, the 5th and perhaps saddest reason for some not posting, is if they are put off by bickkering or infighting etc... I suspect this is a far bigger turn off than newbies such as myself asking the same old dumb questions.

It's interesting that the fight threads get the most views though.
Todd and I are already discussing our next topic. We may have a face-to-face to nail down the progression.
We have some interesting ideas coming up, so stay tuned!

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Old growth, shmold growth!

More views doesn't necessarily equate to "better" nor a desire to see more of it. Sort of like accidents on the highway. Lot's of rubberneckers but does anyone hope to see one? I think not. But refer to Padma's post regarding HITS and therein lies a suggestion why threads like this one are allowed.

Another reason for not posting or dropping out to me is how much of a waste of time many threads are. Just look at this page of this thread with references to pizza, goats and seals. What's this got to do with lutherie? By contrast, I spent more time on the AGF and found it to be much more on the point of building guitars. Maybe the OLF should concentrate on the "L".

If you peruse the forum, you will find that the contributors who posted about , goats and seals are exactly the same guys who post some of the most helpful info on the "serious" threads.

Tony Said
"I couldn't agree more. My posts are almost complete nonsense at this point. I haven't posted anything helpful in months. I should rectify that post haste. To that end, I give you this helpful tip:
The best way to reheat a slice of is NOT in the stove or microwave. Instead, put the slice in a non-stick pan on medium low heat and cover the pan. The crust will get nice and crispy and the cheese will melt perfectly."

My name is Joe and I approve this message

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Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust

All the more reason to stick to lutherie.

All lutherie and no play makes Jack a dull boy. Going a little O.T. occasionally can add a little fun to what might otherwise become a rather "dry" discussion.
Good info on the reheat! Sometimes you learn things you didn't know you didn't know.

I owe all of my knowledge about building guitars to the internet. I began at the KitGuitarsForum.com, found Kenneth Michael Guitars through that site, and bought my first two kits from KMG. I eventually found this forum, the MIMF, Luthierforum.com, the ANZLF, UMGF, http://www.AcousticGuitarConstructionForum.com etc. I owe a great debt to the people who post useful info on all of those forums. I also found the humor posted on all of the aforementioned forums to be as interesting as the build info. It broke up the monotony of my builds, made me realize my mistakes have happened before, and to better builders than I, and that there were multiple ways to fix my mistakes. Humor is in my nature. I can not help but attempt to make people laugh. In a past life, I would have to assume I was either a tarsier, because of their comically large eyes which make me laugh each and every time I see them, or some sort of court jester. Or class clown. Or just an a$$hole. Whatever. I like to try to bring some form of joy to people's lives, whether it be a custom guitar for a Hurricane Sandy victim, or a bad joke on a forum. And, on occasion, when the opportunity presents itself, I like to share the knowledge I have learned from the internet and the tiny bit I learned on my own.

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http://www.CostaGuitars.com
PMoMC

Can I have the last word?

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We are all in the gutter but some of us are looking at guitars.

Sure Joe. Go ahead.

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http://www.CostaGuitars.com
PMoMC

Tony, I have no issue with your intent and admire you're "giving back" but here is my side of it. Writing humor is very difficult. When the only thing is the words on the page it is very easy for the ready to misinterpret. I've seen too many threads where a comment from someone diverts the thread in a direction far away from the topic of the original post. The result is either the question asked isn't answered or it's delayed by multiple non-related responses. That is frustrating and one may then decide it isn't worth the time nor effort to ask a question on this post. I, like you, love humor, but I turn to other sources for it.

As you see, I don't post often and mostly for the reasons I've given here. My only goal in posting now is to express another side in the hope of making this forum better.

Usually, the humour comes long after the OP has recieved an appropriate response, or along with it.
It takes all types.

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Old growth, shmold growth!

perhaps you could hone your reading/comprehension skills or get a better internet conection, because i have little problem getting the "meat" out of most threads in short order...i have noticed that the threads that do devolve into jokes and tangents generally are not very compelling topics to begin with, such as this one. OLF is not a dictionary or encyclopedia, it is a forum

While we are waiting for Joe to take the last word, I just wanted to thank Murray for starting this thread.

It has been very informative. Now I know why so many great builders DO post here and I know who James Orr is !!!

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Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust

OK I'll try.
I have 3 points to make.
First, regarding the original question, of course no-one knows why anyone chooses to post here and who cares anyway? Being a pro does not mean that you know more than an ameteur. In fact, it could be the opposite as most pros need to concentrate on making money and might get fixed into one way of making, whereas an ameteur might have more experience of differant methods. I've gained a wealth of knowledge here and someone has always helped me when I needed it. There are loads of amazing builders on this forum. thats enough.
Second, I don't mind the fighting. For me the OLF is more than a luthier forum. I find the cultural dimensions of the OLF fasinating. The different ways, between the Americans, Europeans and Australians, of expressing ourselves is very interesting. And then there's the likes of Tai Fu, massivelly enthusiastic, living in an industrial region of the world but struggling with the economics of being a small bussiness. Most members are Americans and the OLF gives me an insight into the phyche of the Americans. Anyone can choose not to read the posts with bickering in them but I find them insightful.
Thirdly, for some reason this thread has ended on a question of whether humour is approbriate or not. Tony from NYC is very funny, he writes very well, and he brightens up the forum.
The OLF needs interesting, knowledgable characters, not (necessarily) pros.
Anyway, enough of this naval gazing and I don't mean watching the tall ships, boom, boom.

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We are all in the gutter but some of us are looking at guitars.

Excellent post Joe. Thanks for the kind words too.

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http://www.CostaGuitars.com
PMoMC

That's a good point Todd. I have to say that the goat pics have made me literally laugh out loud more than once and that is always a good thing except when I'm trying to drink something.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

If I had known that my goat pics would cause such controversy...I'd probably still post them. When something makes me laugh out loud, I want to share that joy with others. Plus, it can get a little stuffy around here without the occasional humorous post being sprinkled here and there. I added about 6-10 totally non-humorous posts in the last few days. That has to count for something. Now ba-a-a-a-a-a-ack to my regularly scheduled goat jokes. I don't want to depress anyone, so here is a happy goat meme:

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http://www.CostaGuitars.com
PMoMC

And to get back to something woodwork-related, here's a picture of the fastest growing tree in nature...

The goats just happen to have been standing there when it sprouted.

Todd very good observation on how loofiers respond or don/t to posts on the forum. I will take it one step futher and steal some of herr sigmund freud/s human observations, that is , some of us have more emotional baggage or pain than others. So, if there is a statement that someone makes or says on the forum that "triggers" us , it/s off to the races , and someone becomes offended, then off come the gloves, and the polite language, and it becomes well, a verbal game of wills , of I/m right and your wrong.I refer to this as my "pain" or whatever you want to call it. I usually prefer to leave mine (pain) outside the confines of the OLF. Thats one mans opinion. For me keep the humour coming I luv it. Hope you all have a happy thanksgiving.

Funny, looks like some OLF, er who goofed on thickness sanding an expensive set of BRW or whatever.