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Hi everyone,
I'm very happy to be here. I'm a classical guitarist and my interest doesn't stop there, I'm enamored with the entire topic. I've had a strong desire to learn to build and by extension to repair classical guitars for long enough that I'm starting to make preparations. I have some experience with wood working, enough to want to learn more. Primarily I'm interested in traditional construction methods , but also have great interest in modern double-top/lattice construction as well, but that's for after I have some builds under my belt.

I've not had time to browse the forum very much yet, and I see many links to supplies, I'll be reading and checking those out asap

I was looking at kits last night, one or two came with a solera and other jigs and things that would keep me from having to build them. That seems useful. I mite start #1 with a kit, but am not sure yet.

Here is my materials list so far: For several of these I'm not sure how many or what sizes are actually useful, so I'd appreciate advice

Clamps:Various sizes,Cam clamps,Spool clamps. What other types of clamps are commonly used in guitar building? I'm familiar with C-clamps, but I'm not sure what the clamps specifically used for things like clamping bridges are called.

Hand saws: Fine-tooth saw, Japanese pull saw, How many saws and what sizes would actually be useful?

Planes: Block plane, Finger plane, Jack plane, Same question: how many and what sizes?

Radius sanding "bowls" ( sorry, still learning terminology )

Chisels: Small set, What sizes would you recommend for guitar building?

Scrapers ; Card scrapers for tops/backs

Files & rasps: Nut files, Half-round rasp, What else would be considered essential?

Measuring tools, Calipers, Straightedge, Feeler gauges, Square Anything I'm missing?

Sharpening Stones or another system for keeping chisels and plane irons razor sharp

Drill + bits: Hand drill or drill press? I can work on acquiring drill press if it's necessary.

Sanding: Sanding blocks, Various grits of paper, Cork or wooden blocks

Glue setup: Bottles, Brushes, Hide glue or Titebond depending on the construction method

Small clamps / jigs: Rosette, Purfling, Bending sides, Other small construction jigs. I have seen that some kits come with a solera and other things that would keep me from having to build them right off the bat.

Side bending: I've seen father and son Brune use an oval pipe heated with a propane torch as a bending iron. This seems the simplest

Thicknessing: Hand plane, Drum sander ( I'd for sure need a drill press for this right? ) Scraper/other methods.Can I realistically build a guitar without owning a large thickness sander? If so, what methods do builders commonly use instead?

Finishing: Shellac, French-polishing supplies, Brushes, Clothes etc

I'm not trying to buy every possible tool before starting. I'm trying to figure out what is genuinely necessary, what is merely convenient, and where there are inexpensive/manual alternatives to expensive machinery.

I'd especially appreciate recommendations for specific sizes/quantities of hand tools, and advice from people who actually build classical guitars about what they consider essential versus unnecessary.

Of course I need books and plans, these are what I plan on getting:

Courtnall – Making Master Guitars → Full‑size classical plans (Torres, Hauser, Fleta, Bouchet).

Cumpiano/Natelson – Guitarmaking → Covers classical build process step‑by‑step, even if plans aren’t blueprint style.

Romanillos – Antonio de Torres → Optional? Pure history/scholarship, would this benefit?

I've heard that for a first build, a Torres copy would be the least challenging for a beginner. Do you guys agree? It mite take me a year to actually be ready to start, so I'm just gearing up. First I think I'll have to convert one of my spare bedrooms into a climate controlled environment with a good sealing door.
thanks
RD

Get this set of books & plans first:

https://goreguitars.com.au/the-book/

They’re very thorough and will show exactly which tools you need and why.

Thank you

The Gore/Gilet books recommended by Leo are fantastic, for sure. However, if you want to mostly work with hand tools, the Cumpiano/Natelson you have already listed is my top choice.

One thing to consider: once you start building your first guitar, it is best to follow just one book, and not try to mix and match different parts of different books. Some things recommended by the different books are not compatible with the methods outlined in the other books. Mixing methods can lead to expensive mistakes.

Another way to get started is to buy a video course. Google Robbie O’Brien and building guitars. You will find his website, where he (and other teachers) provide excellent step by step videos courses. I’ve learned a lot from Robbie.

Another pearl of wisdom: embrace the idea that your first guitar will not be perfect. Let it be the guitar that shows some mistakes, which is how you learn. Then your second guitar will have far fewer mistakes, and so on. If you demand perfection in your first guitar, you will never complete it. There are some mistakes that are so bad, you have to redo that part, for structural or operational reasons. But if it is cosmetic, maybe let it be less than perfect for the first guitar.

Good luck! It is an engaging hobby.

Cumpiano and Natlelson got me interested. Randy Wood being a neighbor and sounding board was magical. Find a good mentor near you and ply him/her with bribes in exchange with hands on experience.

From my notes:

- Avoid what my former boss described as leaping from lilly pad to lilly pad... pick an approach and follow it through to completion. Mixing techniques risks both undoing something already done as well as failing to accomplish some task which is the 'secret sauce' of the method.

- Your first guitar is all about learning the order-of-build versus achieving a functional instrument - finish that first guitar before haring off in a new direction

- Tool Acquisition Syndrome is every bit as pernicious a disease as Guitar Acquisition Syndrome - the treatment of both illnesses is recognition that the symbol of the thing (in both cases, tools used) is not the thing itself (competence). A studio full of guitars does not a player make, nor does a shop full of high-dollar tools create competence in the craft. You have to do those hard parts yourself.

- Buy tools as they are needed; most lists are both woefully incomplete and subject to the author's prejudices as to what he or she considers essential and perhaps recommended. Cumpiano is about to drop a new, updated edition, but the older version is quite good. I suspect that Cumpiano and Natelson have been responsible for more successful first builds than all other books combined, so not a terrible way to go.

If you decide to focus on repair, then concentrate on tools for making nuts and doing fret jobs. That's where the action is - literally and figuratively.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

Since you want to build classicals I'll vote for Cumpiano and Natelson. I've built a couple of very reasonable classicals from that book and set of the '37 Hauser plans.

I recently did a little personal challenge to build a nylon string guitar from materials on hand (I had to buy a set of tuners), using only tools and methods in Cumpiano, using only hide glue and French polish. Might give you some ideas. Here is a build thread from a different forum

https://www.tdpri.com/threads/my-classi ... e.1036434/

Woodie made some excellent points. Especially to buy tools as you need them.

Cumpiano starts out with a chapter on tools and materials. I'd start reading it cover to cover and watch as many youtubes on guitar builds as you have time for.

Start with a kit that has as much done for you as possible. There will still be plenty to learn while not requiring a huge tool budget.

Some of the youtube vids of Spanish guitar builders do a ton of work with hand tools and rope.

Remember that not all dreams come true and you may find you don't like building as much as you'd hoped. If you don't have other reasons for tool purchases, they can be a bitter reminder if that happens.

Once you come up with your basic tool list start hitting Craigs List, flea markets and garage sales. Used hand tools are cheap these days and often better than new. Fixing up old hand tools is a skill you need anyway.

Loving tools and wood and enjoying doing things for yourself helps justify expenditures.

Good luck and please post your progress.

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Brian R, Wood Mechanic
N8ZED

Cam clamps and spool clamps are about all I use. You can build all sorts of jigs out of cam clamps. Rub joint for bridges.

Nut files are a luxury item. A knife style needle file works fine.

I use a dozuki saw for most things. You'll also need a fret slot saw, and something for curvy shapes like plate outlines. A coping saw will do, but a deep throat fret saw with spiral blade is better (which has nothing to do with guitar frets, it's like a big jeweler's saw).

You don't need a radius dish or thickness sander. I build entirely freestanding with dentellones to attach sides to top https://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=618986#p618986

For planes, the essentials are a fairly long and very flat one for jointing plates (I built my own out of wood, about 15" long), and a block plane for thicknessing, preferably with teeth (mine has 4 notches ground into the edge with a dremel wheel). Then scrape to finish.

I recommend Lee Valley's 0.032" scraper. Buy the carbide burnisher. Or if you have any broken/worn out carbide end mills you could probably just JB Weld one into a piece of wood.

My go-to edge tools are an x-acto #2 with the larger red handle and short 1/2" Craftsman chisel (6 1/2" including handle).

Side bending, I use a 3" exhaust pipe from a muffler shop's scrap bin, screwed to a piece of wood with L brackets, with electric charcoal starter squashed a bit to fit inside (plug and unplug periodically to control temperature).

The iGaging 36" graduated straightedge is a great multi-purpose tool for checking flatness, marking fret slots, measuring saddle placement, and as a knife guide if you ever need to slice paper or veneer.

I started out with wet/dry sandpaper for sharpening, but never was able to get a very good edge until I bought 8x3" dia-sharp stones. You only need XXC and XXF grits. And you'll need something finer like a waterstone until the XXF has mellowed out. The XXC is also very useful for sanding wood perfectly flat (such as the jointing plane), and flattening the waterstone.

My second guitar was a 37 Hauser kit from LMII (who unfortunately is no longer in business). The advantage of the kit is that some of the operations that take special tools and/or methods are done for you - sides are bent, neck is rough shaped, fretboard slotted, plates thicknessed



I followed C&N, skipping the parts that were already done. The guitar came out nice and I was hooked on building.

In the 25 years since then I have built a total of 30 instruments of all sizes and shapes, nylon and steel strings, 6 and 12 strings, resonators, electric and acoustic. Each time I build I think of the tool that would have made the last one easier or better, and I buy it. Side bending machine, floating binding router gig, better rosette cutter. I now have a pretty complete lutherie workshop and a small cache of tonewood.

The way I did it worked very well and I do recommend it but there are lots of other ways to approach this hobby. Enjoy your experience

For what it is worth, it looks like StewMac is now selling basically the same kit that I built. Recommended

https://www.stewmac.com/kits-and-projec ... d4bd8e5241

I am in the start with a kit group. Follow a book for help, Cumpiano /Gore as mentioned. The most important stuff is not done for you like voicing the top, setting the neck, making the nut and saddle, fretwork and setup, and the most challenging - finishing.

Get tools as you need them. After that kit you will know whether the fire is lit or some other pastime suits you better. If the fire is roaring maybe build a couple more kits and if at all possible take a building course. A good one will shave years off your learning curve.

I built four Martin kits and then took the Fox course in 2003. I got a lot more out of the course having cut my teeth on the kits. I'll be starting #96 and 97 soon.

Good luck and oh yeah, get the best dust collection system you can afford your sinuses will thank you.

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

Try and get the book Understanding Wood it's like the Bible of Wood Knowledge.

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My $0.02:

1. Everything Woody said.
2. For classical guitar construction the Courtnall book is a must, as is Alberto Paredes's book The Modern Classical Guitar: History, Design, and Construction.

Best of luck.

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R.M. Mottola
LiutaioMottola.com

Author of the books Building the Steel String Acoustic Guitar, Practical Design of the Acoustic Guitar and Similar Instruments, and Mottola's Cyclopedic Dictionary of Lutherie Terms.

I don't check in here very often. If you need to contact me the best bet is via email through the contact page on my site.

Sorry to go against the grain (some pun intended) but I don't feel as though the Cumpiano book is ideal for building one's first guitar compared to the Courtnall book. The Cumpiano book is somewhat outdated and seems more ideal for one building a steel string guitar, you can still build a good quality classical from the information in the book but the information in the Courtnall book is far more in-depth. The Gore book is very interesting but very scientific minded; I wouldn't necessarily recommend that for a first guitar as I feel his approach can be a bit overwhelming when one is still learning the basics. Gore's guitar model is also very modern and unique to him: if you're attempting to build a guitar that sounds or even looks like a Hauser or Torres you'll be fairly disappointed with the results.

With that said I think the best instruction outside of hands-on is the online guitar making course from Pablo Requena in Malaga. Pablo runs in person courses as well having previously taught alongside Stephen Hill at the European Institute of Guitar Making (a course I've also taught with Stephen a few times). His online course, while not inexpensive, is much more reasonable financially than signing up for his in person class in Spain. Every step of his process is laid out in a series of detailed videos and Pablo is available to answer questions by call or email. From having taught guitar making courses and coming across many aspiring makers I feel that having an experienced teacher detailing the process while also being available to answer questions will guarantee success. As an aside I have no affiliation with Pablo or his courses other than occasionally sharing a beer and tapa with him, if you don't wish to purchase his course his free videos on YouTube are an invaluable source of information.

David, I just bought that book- it's one of the best books in my library. I'm reading it from start to finish- it's that well-ordered. And the section on wood strength fills in a lot of gaps. Heck- everything I've read so far is filling some gaps. What an excellent and well written book!

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Measure Twice,

Karl Borum

The books contains full size plans for four guitars, two classical and two steel string. The SS guitars are a very standard round-shouldered dreadnought shape (think J45) and one of my more modern shapes. The classicals are a Fleta style shape (which may or may not appeal to you) and a more conventional classical shape of "standard" size. Apart from one or two oddballs, classical guitars follow a pretty standard set of proportions, which are shown in Design Fig. 4.6-32. My "standard" classical is shown here:



A more modern shape derived using biomechanical principles (for less tiring playing) is my neo-classical body shape (not in the book) which does look "different". It's a body shape I use for both classical and steel string guitars. Amongst other things, the high waist brings the low frets closer, making for an easier reach with the fretting hand for those who may need that.



The main point of the books is not about recipes for guitars, but to provide a set of tools relating woodwork to acoustics so you can control the sound of guitars to achieve the sound you hear in your head.

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Trevor Gore, Luthier. Australian hand made acoustic guitars, classical guitars; custom guitar design and build; guitar design instruction.

http://www.goreguitars.com.au

Learning to do anything from a review of text and flat, 2D images that don't move is not my idea of a good time. With the exception of the rare beasts that can puzzle things out from a textbook without further coaching, most of us would have preferred that hands-on, mentored approach. I think most craft or trades books are artifacts of a rapidly vanishing way of learning. With all due regard to authors that have invested enormous human and financial capital in their creations, for many of us, a picture is worth a thousand words, and actually being in the shop with a proficient instructor is worth a thousand posts, YouTube videos, and texts.

Unfortunately, many of us will not have a coterie of talented luthiers nearby that wish to host a somewhat inept, occasionally ill-tempered student for a seemingly indefinite period of time - no matter of delicious her baked goods or delightful her company might happen to be. Most of us will make do by keeping company with Messrs. Cumpiano and Natalson, Gore and Gilet, etc., supplemented by occasional panicked queries to those kind souls lurking on the few remaining sites on the Interwebs not taken over by AI bots and various flavors of ego-inflamed idiocy.

What Woodie said. You might want to check and see if there's a local luthiers club. I live in the Bay Area, so we have a pretty good luthiers club that meets once every two months at different shops and talk story, show instruments and give and get advice. Another avenue is check out the Looth Group they haver a wealth of info. It's more geared towards repair but still has a lot of content for builders.

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When I discovered Randy Wood was a neighbor I went to this shop, attached to his house, and took him a couple of 2" billets of mahogany as an introduction gift. He invited me in and for the next 4 Saturdays I sat in a corner, quietly just watching. After a while we became friends and he shared a wealth of knowledge and the use of some of his tools.
Like I said in my earlier post. By whatever means at your disposal, find a nearby mentor. Like Woodie says, hands on experience can't be substituted.
You might not be lucky in finding another Randy Wood but anyone that has built a few instruments is worth watching and listening to.

One book over another isn't all that important to me. Basic concepts and processes are pretty similar throughout stringed instrument building and tool work crosses all the woodworking endeavors. Doesn't matter much where you acquire woodworking skills.

If you take guitar making seriously most of us end up with a library of books, both about instrument making and the tools and materials we use.

A great resource is available free and updated fairly regularly - USDA, Forest Service, "Wood Handbook, Wood as an Engineering Material".

https://research.fs.usda.gov/treesearch/62200

I bought my copy from Government Printing Office in 1970 for $7. Now dog eared and a broken spine demo it's usefulness. Covers everything from cutting trees to finishes. A great resource.

Some of the schools out there sound great but for folks starting out it can be a choice between going to school or setting up a decent shop for the money.

I'd crack the books and buy tools, worked for me.

Forums like this and "youtubes" can fill in a lot of the blanks. On line courses are often great and reasonable too.

Much of this has already been mentioned.

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Brian R, Wood Mechanic
N8ZED

Thanks for the responses. Starting out and finding that I'm not cut out for it, or that I don't actually like building, is one of my fears. I'm in a situation where this is one of, if not the only, way I can stay busy and potentially make some money at this point in my life. The reasons are complicated. It's pretty much luthiery or nothing. My advantage is that I love every aspect of the classical guitar world, have an insatiable curiosity about it their construction and the secrets behind, and am as motivated to learn as I'll ever get. I've read several luthiers got their start later in life.

JSB guitars has a $1,600 kit that comes with a Solera and some of the other things I'd normally have to build or acquire first. I was considering that as a starting point.
https://www.jsbguitars.com/shop/guitar- ... aster-kit/

I absolutely do have Guitar Acquisition Syndrome, but I'm hitting a bit of a wall with it because of arthritis and the fact that I'm not young anymore. Learning new pieces is more grueling than it used to be. I've forgotten so much, and I'm not sure how much of it I can regain. I'm also struggling with stretches and occasional left-pinky pain and have realized that I really need a 630–640 mm scale guitar. If I'm going to play, I have to make some progress for it to be worth it. I have, it's just very very slow and discouraging.

Building, and potentially doing repair work, seem like my only options for staying close to what I love.
"if your focus is on repairs, then concentrate on tools for making nuts and doing fret jobs"
I had thought of this, I see quite a few older made in Japan guitars and older dried out Ramirez or other makes of guitars with splits in the soundboard or elsewhere and many that need fingerboard planning/refret . I could potentially start with jobs like that.

I'm in a classical guitar desert where I live, it's devoid of art completely. There are no players of CG, or luthiers closer than 100's of miles. I have two new guitars coming to me next week. Was going to keep buying them, I'm thinking I should switch my focus to buying tools and books though.

edit: Robbie O’Brien and building guitars , when I try to download the material list, it's in Korean, and it won't translate.. Pretty confusing

If you're actively buying what I assume are expensive concert guitars, why not take Brian's advice above and go take a guitar-making course with that money instead? You'll learn more in less time, with less frustration, and your early instruments will be better. And if it's not for you, you didn't outfit an entire guitar making shop before figuring that out.

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Instagram: @jfrenchluthier
Web: https://www.jfrenchguitars.com/

Sorry Trevor, I've only read the "design" volume of your book set and had assumed the "build" volume focused on the construction of falcate guitars (which I find highly interesting but assumed would be a bit tricky to build well for a first attempt).



I've met a number of people who have taken the guitar making course I occasionally teach with Stephen Hill who find they're not quite as enthusiastic about building guitars as they had originally thought once the course is complete. They universally seem to have enjoyed having taken the course and always leave with a good guitar (sometimes built more by the instructor than themselves depending on the amount of difficulties that arise) but luckily they don't have to worry about tools and machines they've acquired in vain. On the other hand many people who take the course decide to set up a shop of their own and have the benefit of knowing which tools they'll need to purchase, which ones they can make themselves, and which one's are a nice luxury but not necessary to buy right away. The only two courses I can recommend are the ones run by Stephen Hill (European Institute of Guitar Making) and Pablo Requena but I'm sure there are others out there as well. Tobias Braun runs an annual course as well but I don't believe he allows first time builders to participate.

As an aside; guitar making, especially at the early phases, is a money losing endeavor. After 10 years of full time professional building and a few apprenticeships in Spain before that my guitars have now finally hit the 5 figure price mark and I'm finally able to lead a somewhat middle class lifestyle in NY. While it's true that Robert Bouchet started his career in midlife and rose to become one of the most important makers in the tradition he's very much not the norm. I say this not to discourage but to temper expectations; classical guitar building is very much a worthwhile endeavor but approaching it with idea of making a reasonable income can lead to a fair bit of discouragement.

Robbie Obriens in person course might be a good choice for you. At the very least get his online class for building a classical.

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