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I'm looking for black material for nut/saddle on a OM steel string. I see black horn for nut... but not sure if it is tough enough for saddle. Any other suitable black material available for steel string?
Kent

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Kent,

You can use ebony for the nut and you could probably try it for the saddle too. I've used dark Brazalian Rosewood for both nuts and saddles in the past. The saddle may wear a bit more quickly than bone but can be easily sanded and it's easy to make new ones. Use your own ears to compare the tone with that of a bone saddle or other material as it may not be to your taste.

If you are using an under saddle pickup then the manmade materials may be a better bet.

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Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

Ebony is, as Dave said, a traditional material for nut and saddle. I've also used water buffalo horn and like it for the nut -- a bit harder and longer wearing than ebony -- but found it killed brightness when I used it for a saddle. It sure polishes up nice, though!

I have used the Tusq brand black self lubricated material for nuts and saddles on a three guitars and it works and sounds quite good. I did this as I play in a lot of dropped tunings and find that the string life and tuning accuracy is better than bone. I actually changed the nut and saddle on the Wedge guitar I sold last fall, the new owner had played my personal guitar with the Tusq and asked if I could put it on his. I like the look of the black saddles on an ebony bridge.

Fred

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Fred Tellier
http://www.fetellierguitars.com
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/pages/FE-Tellier-Guitars/163451547003866

I've used black horn for nuts and saddles on two guitars and really like them.

Ron

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OLD MAN formerly (and formally) known as:

Ron Wisdom

Somewhere in the middle of Arkansas......

Torlon 4301 (mostly black) would be ideal for properties and 5530 (all black) is still really awesome...if you've really got some cash burning a hole in your pocket. Enough for a saddle wouldn't be crazy, but they only sell it by the square foot anywhere I can find it...we should do a group buy of one square foot

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Bob Garrish
Former Canonized Purveyor of Fine CNC Luthier Services

you could also jsut take a black sharpie to a bone saddle and nut .... or dye them ...

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Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

I had the very same experience with black horn, made a nice nut, not-so-nice a saddle.

Anybody knowledgeable in dyes that work well on bone? Can you point me in the right direction? I'd love to dye some bone black, and would be interested in various shades of brown as well.

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

Fred, is that black Tusq material available in oversized blanks, or only in pre-shaped nuts and saddles?

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

Todd, I've used Fiebing's black leather dye to stain a parlor's pear wood bridge black and once put a saddle back in the slot before the dye had dried. I think it would work fine for bone too.

African Blackwood is another candidate that works well for nuts. It's nearly black, but upon close inspection it actually looks like wood. I haven't yet tried it as a saddle, but can't image why it wouldn't hold up.

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Hibdon Hardwood, Inc.
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Saint Louis, Missouri 63102
314.621.7711

The problem with staining or dying bone is will the color/stain/dye permeate the bone material well enough that it is just not on the surface.

I played around with this some years back attempting to stain a bone nut and saddle and my results were not good.

I tried tea and coffee soaking the bone for up to a month and the color transfer was only skin deep. Any abrasions to the bone and you had a glaring white spot showing through. Although I did not use any dyes again if the issue is permeation or a lack of same I don't see how stain would perform much better. YMMV

The Martin 0-28 Ian Anderson comes with 2 saddles. A white Micarta for steel strings and a BLACK MICARTA for nylon strings. I don't see why there would be any difference except to color code the material for people like me . I also have a piece of jet that has been sitting around for several years. Fossilized charcoal that is blacker than ebony. Maybe too soft for a saddle, but have not used it for anything yet so really don't know.

Tim

I've seen some nice-looking bone nuts and saddles dyed with coffee or tea. I've been thinking about doing it, so (coincidentally with this thread) I took several scrap pieces and soaked them overnight in both black tea and coffee (both of which were boiling hot to begin with; don't know if that makes any difference). Interestingly, the tea and coffee dyed the bone the same - a nice, light coffee brown in both cases - no noticeable difference to my eye.

I've also wondered how deeply the color may penetrate and how easily it might be abraded off the surface. So, I took some of the dyed pieces and scraped them with a small screwdriver (which has pretty sharp edges), and also rubbed them with a couple different grits of sandpaper. My conclusion: the color is just on the surface, but doesn't scrape or sand off very easily. No doubt, I could scrape or sand it off when I deliberately tried to do so, but I had to work at it a bit. Light-to-medium scratches with the screwdriver and light-to-medium swipes with the sandpaper had no visible effect on the color. Therefore, I'd say that, given the way most people treat their high-end handmade guitars, it seems unlikely that a bad enough scrape or scratch would happen to the nut or saddle to cause a visible white bone "scar". Could happen, but doesn't seem to be something to really worry about. I would expect the color would likely wear off directly under the strings on both the nut and saddle, but that would be hidden by the strings. Also, the nut or saddle could be re-dyed at some point if necessary, or probably even spot-dyed.

I would be more concerned about this issue if I were dyeing the bone black, because the extreme contrast between the black surface color and the white bone would make any scratches much more conspicuous. For this reason, as I've thought about it more, I don't think I'll try dyeing bone black. I've ordered a couple pieces of the black tusq material to check that out for black nuts and saddles.

I like my nuts and saddles to be highly polished, so my next test is going to be polishing up some pieces of bone and then dyeing them, to see if the dyeing dulls the shine. If it does dull the shine, then I'll see if a light polishing with 3M polishing paper brings the shine back up without removing the color.

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

I recently picked up some black corian scraps from a local cabinet maker. I'll send you chunk if you want... I have black water buffalo horn too, but am a little disappointed with the hardness. It's quite a bit softer (and lighter) than cow bone.

Walrus Ivory can be mineral stained (naturally, over a LONG time) to be mostly black. Sometimes the scrimshaw places have pieces left over as the darker stuff is not what they are most looking for. You would have to mill your own blanks however.

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Burton
http://www.legeytinstruments.com
Brookline, MA.